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Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

  • 1.  Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-11-2021 08:51 AM
    Good morning:

    Are others interested in networking to discuss the challenges we face in our individual markets to get solar sold? In Missouri, even though the industry wide marketing "slant" is--GET SOLAR FOR NOTHING AND EVERYTHING IS FREE AND YOU SAVE THOUSANDS AND YOU SAVE THE PLANET. Which of course is a pretty big bag of poo-poo.

    So, in Missouri, when you get in the trenches with a potential customer, not only do you have to explain stuff and show them how they eventually will realize some savings, you need to try to "undo" all the misinformation and snake oil salesman repercussions. You're also dealing with fairly low price per kWh electricity, often below 10 cents AND, really most of the time, the only other financial incentive benefit besides the ITC is net metering. But with roofs and shade, etc, most of the time, the true immediate budgeting consideration is that it will cost them, (usually) slightly more than they're paying now. Of course, then they WILL have solar and the future homeowner will have solar and the true benefit that accrues is huge.

    There is a way to sell solar, responsibly with honesty and integrity and get some customers, but it is tough generally, especially competing with the big dogs who seem to have scads of people walking around neighborhoods, who generally don't know squat about our real dilemma of climate change and how huge it is to start moving to solar.

    Also best practices of sales should be followed by members and standards need to be developed.

    ------------------------------
    Winston RILEY
    Owner
    Bask Solar Company
    Lee's Summit MO
    basksolarco@gmail.com
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-12-2021 10:19 AM
    My problem is I'm in Georgia and my HOA has denied 15 black solar panels on my back roof, and no fighting chance now I either move or can not get solar panels installed.

    ------------------------------
    Richard Alexander
    richardalexander40@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-12-2021 05:01 PM
    Richard, that is so disappointing to hear. Many HOA's have faced lawsuits and lost. Also many states have adopted "solar access rights."

    From an article CAN MY HOA STOP ME FROM INSTALLING SOLAR? From the Solar Gaines Blog, I quote:

    In the meantime, it can't hurt to try winning your HOA board members over with a few persuasive arguments;

    • Solar panels provide major environmental benefits and they fight one of our biggest challenges for the future, climate change. The production of energy pollutes our air even more than cars do– overall, the majority of power plants in the U.S. are polluting the air. That pollution not only impacts climate change, but also serious health issues like asthma, bronchitis, pulmonary disease, and lowers our resistance to infections.
    • Solar power increases the value of your home. For every $1 saved in annual electricity costs, your home jumps up $20 in value.
    • Solar panels decrease energy costs, thereby helping you save a bundle of money – something everyone can agree with.

    Additionally, keep in mind HOA board members abide by community bylaws, thus if you can win over 75% of the property owners with some persuasive reasoning, you can modify your HOA bylaws.



    ------------------------------
    Winston RILEY
    Owner
    Bask Solar Company
    Lee's Summit MO
    basksolarco@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-12-2021 05:19 PM
    SECTION #23 ENERGY CONSERVATION


    ------------------------------
    Richard Alexander
    Owner
    Superior Services Investment Group, LLC
    richardalexander40@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-15-2021 06:25 PM
    I have exhausted all my remedies, and wish I could get a great attorney to sue, but there by laws say no Solar, and HR 2454 never passed and if it does then that's a win for me. At this point I will probably move within 2 yrs to another home that has no HOA and solve all the problems. 

    I don't have time to get all the neighbors to back this but will work on it we have a pretty big community. 

    Thanks for all the advice and help. Will keep fighting.

    ------------------------------
    Richard Alexander
    Owner
    Superior Services Investment Group, LLC
    richardalexander40@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-15-2021 11:11 AM
    Richard A.  Have you thought about the new tiled solar panels?
    They look just like roofing tiles, this may help:







  • 7.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-15-2021 11:47 AM
    Thanks I'm very familiar with those but the coat is $50,000 vs $15,000 panels. 

    I would rather move out from the HOA instead of doing that. Find a home with no HOA before doing that. 

    I have kind of given up at this point

    ------------------------------
    Richard Alexander
    Owner
    Superior Services Investment Group, LLC
    richardalexander40@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 11-15-2021 03:22 PM
    Edited by william fitch 11-16-2021 10:06 AM
    You might want to try these guys. I have NOT used their product so I cannot personally vouch for their product quality, etc., but the energy hit is less than 20% I believe, and they can blend in pretty well...
    One of the primary reasons MIT started the research for this product was the resistance of HOA's to solar panels on roof's. Go figure....
    Residential solar skin site.


    https://www.sistinesolar.com/

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 11-12-2021 10:21 AM
    Sales does require an ability to straighten out facts for a customer with all the care of a kindergarten teacher helping non readers. Here at the New York Solar Energy Society nothing is peachy. We have similar issues. Since you are in MO and each state has a separate set of policies and regulations (or barriers) we have broad topics in common. Yes, their are solar black eyes like the lovely shiner delivered post Carter when Reagan tore the solar modules off Caroline's pony shed. I think Obama put a big array on the White House roof.
    It gets more complicated if you try to do community solar or a microgrid. Technically, dealing with the shade, the wrong way roofs, the cheap tariffs can be rewarding. "Does Your Town Have an Energy Plan" approach ties in the public utility, the town management and brings together community. The nay-sayers get a voice. They can point out the pollution from modules, the ugliness, the loss of utility jobs, etc. But, getting them energy security and using the utility for billing might be a better angle forward.
    The ASES Policy Technical Division is one spot we need to develop more. I'm over at Energy Economics Technical Division another area to discuss barriers to uptake of solar.

    ------------------------------
    Wyldon Fishman
    Bronx NY
    wyldon1@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-12-2021 05:12 PM
    Thanks Wyldon. Good stuff. Thinking of a proposal last night. Going in, I knew it was a tough sale as the offset was less than 60%. But the system would still save her (probably), over 10K in the life of her loan. Naturally, her big argument is why get solar if I still have such a large utility bill? And, true enough, she would still have a utility bill but taken together with her new lower utility bill and her system cost (plus the large dealer fee for financing), her total payment wouldn't be much more than she pays now and as years go by, eventually she'll pay less.

    Hers was a tough one, but others are more frustrating. The homeowner immediately has a smaller payment of their tiny utility bill and the monthly cost of her loan. Still, mostly what we run into, because they "understand" that they should save "thousands," just a small monthly savings and a 20 year savings of over 10k, doesn't do it for them.

    I think the new approach would be to show people that it costs very little to go solar, in the short term, and eventually you have significant savings. But the point is, for very little "out-of-pocket" in the short term results in real savings and really you're using money you already will have to pay for electricity otherwise.

    Until a stronger mandate is issued, and with a "carrot" that it actually saves you money in the long term by diverting your utility payment to own your own power, and this message being echoed by sources, communities, associations, schools, etc--we will continue to struggle to make a living (IMHO).

    ------------------------------
    Winston RILEY
    Owner
    Bask Solar Company
    Lee's Summit MO
    basksolarco@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-12-2021 07:43 PM
      |   view attached
    Yes I am seeing some of those crazy promises, and no we are unable to put solar in for nothing down.  That said our business is crazy and we have more work than we know how to complete.  I just tell people the facts, can give them solid references, and tell them if they can get a better deal go for it.  But I know our margins are thin and overhead is low, so whenever they share an apples to apples comparison, we have always come out ahead.   If I feel they are leaning toward one of those "crazy" companies I show them where on line (PVWatts) where they can verify the promised production and I strongly urge them to get a few references for that company.

    ------------------------------
    David Hrivnak
    Sales/Engineering
    EcoLogical (part time)
    dhrivnak@chartertn.net
    ------------------------------

    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    Solar_Flyer.pdf   1.58 MB 1 version


  • 12.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-13-2021 05:32 AM
    I think this is great idea to have a group. I live and work Utah could have written this article word for word except our rates are $.11.

    I run into every problem you describe and it is difficult to do it right and to overcome the misinformation people have received. I worked for several companies before going on my own. Those companies did all of those things. I thought as an independent sales and energy person doing both small commercial and residential I could change those thoughts and do the right thing.

    Its is hard work re-educating the customer especially when the customer wants bids and they are never apples to apples. We have a reputation today like the old vacuum cleaner and encyclopedia salespeople. Sorry, I get to passionate about this subject.

    ------------------------------
    Curt Van Hove
    Renewable Energy/Solar Consultant and Installation and Owner
    Suncatcher Energy
    Sandy UT
    curt@suncatcherenergy.com
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-15-2021 11:40 AM
    Thank you everyone. Richard, Curtis, Noah, Wyldon, and David and all the others who have reached out with PM, email or phone calls, including a fruitful conversation with Paul today in St. Louis and I want to especially thank John Burke from Dad Solar and MSEA. John has worked for years as a volunteer to help students, young and old learn to ACTUALLY make solar panels, to include people around the world so they can do things like pump water. John has offered to "donate" all of that content or make it available through the Captain Sol Brigade. We will currently put his offer to good use with a high school internship program that is going on right now in Missouri.

    More importantly is that all of us who are willing and enthusiastic to see solar expanded, including work we're either collectively doing through ASES and SEIA or doing within our own marketplace, often what seems like all alone in our own foxhole, that we join forces and work together. Help each other and help customers (more customers) get solar.

    Thanks everyone and please keep your thoughts and comments coming.

    ------------------------------
    Winston RILEY
    Owner
    Bask Solar Company
    Lee's Summit MO
    basksolarco@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Chapter Leader
    Posted 11-16-2021 12:32 PM
    All the 'CaptainSol' folks, and Winston Riley -
        After the Covid dilemma (Damn Panic) ... and the interruption of the 'one-on-one' focus of the 'hands-on' solar presentations and seminar / workshops of MESEA (Maine Solar Energy Association, Inc) and Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc ... (dadsolar.com), both 'non-profit educational' corporations, based at the Downeast Solar Center, Jonesport. Maine ... We are looking forward to a 're-newed' interest in the Do-Yourself-Solar approach, after almost two years ... so far !
        The three basic 'step-by-step', hands-on solar procedures MESEA and dadsolar.com are well known for, are designed with all the materials (listed), as well as the 'inspiration' for any age group to get into a 'solar mode', on their own or in a group !                 These three basic solar operations, (65W PV unit); a 'cell-phone' charger and a small (1.5V) battery charger (that can charge up to 4 at a time) but 'one or two' will charge faster have been shared with the ASES PV Tech Division, soon after I was 'unexpectedly' elected as Chair of the Division ! I would have wanted to be the 'Couch' ... (no not the 'potato') !
         We appreciate the 'CaptainSol Brigade' and agree that the 'youth of today' (K-12) are the leaders of tomorrow ... and we have experience with grades 5 - 12, as well as college and grad school participants ! Thanks for all the interest and the enthusiasm !

    ------------------------------
    John Burke
    Director, MESEA, Maine
    Maine Solar Energy Association
    dadsolar@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-17-2021 11:34 AM
      |   view attached
    Winston, 

    I was asked to join the founding team of International Solar & Energy Conservation (Denver, CO) in 1979 so I consider myself something of a solar veteran. 

    In 2015, I was asked to write an Op-Ed for Solar Industry Magazine's Sundown column. In "Change Solar's Story," I contended that if we want to decrease the buyer reluctance to "Go Solar" they need a compelling, engaging story. 

    Long ago, I learned that people like honey better than vinegar, and until there is a solid emotional reason to go solar and be really excited about it, we will creep up by single percentage points. Single percentage points are still good, but not good enough.

    There needs to be a new pitch. What could it be? It would need to inspire and unite people. 

    What do you think?

    /jwj

    ------------------------------
    James Johnston
    Business Development
    Vector Structural Engineers
    Draper UT
    james@vectorse.com
    801-990-1775 x 142
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-17-2021 01:01 PM
    Dear James Johnston:

    You are right on the money! I couldn't agree more.

    I think this conversation is an example of what we pioneers need to be engaged in. If you look at global predictions of how much electricity will need to be coming from solar in 30 years (60 to 70%), and nothing but to inspire homeowners except that they will essentially get solar at a break even compared to their current status of renting electricity from utility companies, we'll never make it.

    Will there be mandates and government sponsored incentives in the future? Well we would have thought so but at this point we don't even know if we'll have a democracy in 2 years, let alone a majority of our lawmakers wondering if climate change is a hoax.

    But if enough of us keep charging and recharging our own batteries with enthusiasm and planning, I guarantee you we have a better chance than if we say, "No, the purpose of our association is not to help our members sell or to even help with education, but it is to help inform the technical side of our members jobs," and no one wants to join to unify and have a marketing/communications plan for an industry AND for our member companies, then we may as well get our helmets and go work for a coal company in West Virginia.

    ------------------------------
    Winston RILEY
    Owner
    Bask Solar Company
    Lee's Summit MO
    basksolarco@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 11-18-2021 02:43 PM
    Edited by william fitch 11-18-2021 02:45 PM
    "Long ago, I learned that people like honey better than vinegar, ..." Totally agree, which is why very attractive women are sought after in sales like they are Gold Nuggets. They can sell "something" that you can not even dream of selling, as long as they know their product and act professional. Some things are just basic, not intellectual, and "looks" is one of them. And everyone along that scale knows all to well where they stand by hard core reality. So no PC please.

    My point regarding the thread title, go back to the basics and use those things that have always been shown to work, if you can find and afford them.


    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-19-2021 10:56 AM
    Your point is well=taken. 
    Thx.
    Jamey

    ------------------------------
    James Johnston
    Business Development
    Vector Structural Engineers
    Draper UT
    james@vectorse.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 11-18-2021 02:29 PM
    "GET SOLAR FOR NOTHING AND EVERYTHING IS FREE AND YOU SAVE THOUSANDS AND YOU SAVE THE PLANET."

    WOW!!

    If that is the promo that someone came up with, it kind of makes me wonder whos "side" are they really on. 
    It reminds me of brilliant slogans like, "Defund the police", instead of a more sensible and logical slogan like "De-militarize the police". I always throw those "offerings" in the possible "false flag" bucket.

    Back in the 70's and 80's when I was in sales for solar companies, thermal tax credits in place, some of that "stuff" was active. Profit over everything. I guess rather than fading away in the mature solar market, its gotten worse. Can't say I am surprised though. Complex system's inertias can not be underestimated when it comes to maintaining a charted course. Which is why to make changes to the rivers course, throwing boulders is necessary rather than pebbles.

    As a general rule after decades of solar and RE 
    visibility, I have concluded that conventional energy prices are proportional to RE implementation. One goes up, so does the other. No better example of this relationship is seen between the price of NG and solar thermal for DHW or space heating. 

    Don't have a magic Bullitt for you, BTW.... Just present it fairly and lets the cards fall where they may, along with the usual array of ethical sales tactics.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-19-2021 09:52 AM
    Thank you William and everyone who has supported this thread. I think there are a fair percentage of solar sales folks doing quite well, thank you very much. And probably some who have contributed here are not faced with quite the challenges that others face when it comes to just "staying sustainable"--ie, in business. 

    But to strike directly to the point, will those of you who have contributed thoughts mind getting on a conference call I can arrange to see about possible strategies and tactics we can explore, simply as members, perhaps with an intention of also being able to recommend to ASES certain avenues we'd like to see implemented?

    A little update. The first committee work is being done on the high school internship program and we fully intend to donate this strategy and all connected documents to whomever would like to use them. This is more than just an educational opportunity for students. It turns out to be quite a good business strategy for any mission driven solar sales organization.

    The components of the Captain Sol Brigade idea is another thread, but it ties in to marketing.

    Thanks for taking the time to tune-in to this conversation

    ------------------------------
    Winston RILEY
    Owner
    Bask Solar Company
    Lee's Summit MO
    basksolarco@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 11-22-2021 10:37 AM
    I'm very interested in a regular call to continue the discussion. Within ASES it falls under the old chapters meet-up called Legislation Education and the Policy Technical Division. I firmly believe it's also a good fit under Energy Economics. I propose a monthly meeting of the Energy Economics Technical Division... FINALLY! This way the office staff accepts the role of invitations going out monthly, the calendaring, the minutes and sending out the minutes. Then, let's see who all can jump in and where it can go.
    I need one thing: the best time to meet. At the New York Solar Energy Society we meet mostly in winter when the days are darker, the winds howl and snow and ice pull many off the roofs. We prefer week nights. Weekends are all about closing customer proposals. We cut back during Spring, Summer and Fall but a core of us might still want to meet. We often give it up for a solar cooking yard party with a band but covid has us all on the zoom. This year we are doing Lobby Days in Albany and regular NYSES chapter zoom calls to boost our findings. We always distribute the wonderful EE/RE resource paper Green Energy Times 6 times/year.
    So, which night? For the east coast we know we are usually looking at 8 - 9 pm. 

    Need to know more about the Technical Divisions? The Technical Divisions Handbook is posted at ases.org
    Want to be a chapter? There's a Chapter Handbook posted at ases.org or get in touch.

    ------------------------------
    Wyldon Fishman
    Bronx NY
    wyldon1@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Marketing and Sales of Residential Solar

    Posted 11-22-2021 10:45 AM
    Thanks Wyldon. Dynamite input. Excellent.