Everything Solar Forum

Original Message:
Sent: 9/2/2021 3:52:00 PM
From: samuel hall
Subject: pricing energy storage?

Here's a better question, for my encore act:

Im finding ESS is becoming part of the conversation now with more than half of my PV projects.  Battery storage is just ramping up fast.  Im interested in how people are pricing battery projects.

Its totally different to solar, isn't it?  With solar, there is (or was) this arbitrary concept of price-per-watt.  It used to $4/watt.  Its probably a lot less than that in a lot of the country.  Where i am (Martha's Vineyard, Mass) everything is expensive, and some of my competitors have charged $5/watt in the last year.  At the same time, i've lost jobs to lower bids when i was closer to $4/watt.  Anyway, the per-watt pricing model is pretty broad-brushstroke, but it works for solar, and projects are typically pretty safely profitable.

But ESS is different, i think?  More of a commodity type project?  Even though ESS is much much newer at the residential level than PV, im finding there's a sense that batteries are a 'product' and pricing is tighter.  More like the model for buying a generator.  We'd mark up the equipment for a generator project, have line items for the subs, and the site work and etc etc, and project management, and labor, etc, but its a commodity that a homeowner can buy like a new refrigerator.  

Tesla's probably to blame for this.  The certified Tesla installers ive met tell me they can hardly install a Powerwall for the pricing that Tesla throws around.  

OK, long story short, in the last 6 months Enphase has re-released Encharge, and its pretty cost competitive with Tesla.  Panasonic EverVolt is in the ballpark, as is LG (though they probably released the new PRIMEs too soon, and aren't quite ready?).  I've got a couple contracts to install some Enphase Encharge E10 projects, and i felt like i had to price them at a pretty straightforward 'retail' kind of model, as i said: 20% markup on equipment and other similar line items, cover labor and subs and overhead and subs, etc etc, and make a few bucks on each line item.

wondering how that jibes with what others are doing?

Sorry for the long question.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

sh

SAMUEL HALL

FarleyBuilt Solar

617-320-1876

I agree batteries are hard and expensive.   Tesla will not sell to us nor anyone else in the area.   We installed one Generac system but have fought through a bad optimizer and a defective inverter.  So we are a bit gun shy of them.  We have done several Sol-Ark and Fortress Power systems and while part of it is a learning curve, we have spent more time than normal on the systems.   We keep our normal 30% mark-up, at least until we get the systems dialed in.   Even at that we seem to be below our competitors.

------------------------------
David Hrivnak
Sales/Engineering
EcoLogical (part time)
dhrivnak@chartertn.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: Sep 03, 2021 09:19 AM
From: Joe Utasi
Subject: pricing energy storage?

I agree. Current battery pricing is WAY too high, but it WILL eventually come down. If you're willing to wait 3 months for delivery, YIY in China has some FANTASTIC prices on LiFePo4 systems. There are a few vendors importing these and private labeling them...  I have THREE of the 200AH ESS on my present off grid home, and I'm EXTREMELY pleased with the performance. The total cost, including ocean freight and delivery to my home was just $8500 total, so you can see that if you're willing to shop and be patient, you CAN find excellent pricing!!

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Original Message:
Sent: 9/2/2021 3:52:00 PM
From: samuel hall
Subject: pricing energy storage?

Here's a better question, for my encore act:

Im finding ESS is becoming part of the conversation now with more than half of my PV projects.  Battery storage is just ramping up fast.  Im interested in how people are pricing battery projects.

Its totally different to solar, isn't it?  With solar, there is (or was) this arbitrary concept of price-per-watt.  It used to $4/watt.  Its probably a lot less than that in a lot of the country.  Where i am (Martha's Vineyard, Mass) everything is expensive, and some of my competitors have charged $5/watt in the last year.  At the same time, i've lost jobs to lower bids when i was closer to $4/watt.  Anyway, the per-watt pricing model is pretty broad-brushstroke, but it works for solar, and projects are typically pretty safely profitable.

But ESS is different, i think?  More of a commodity type project?  Even though ESS is much much newer at the residential level than PV, im finding there's a sense that batteries are a 'product' and pricing is tighter.  More like the model for buying a generator.  We'd mark up the equipment for a generator project, have line items for the subs, and the site work and etc etc, and project management, and labor, etc, but its a commodity that a homeowner can buy like a new refrigerator.  

Tesla's probably to blame for this.  The certified Tesla installers ive met tell me they can hardly install a Powerwall for the pricing that Tesla throws around.  

OK, long story short, in the last 6 months Enphase has re-released Encharge, and its pretty cost competitive with Tesla.  Panasonic EverVolt is in the ballpark, as is LG (though they probably released the new PRIMEs too soon, and aren't quite ready?).  I've got a couple contracts to install some Enphase Encharge E10 projects, and i felt like i had to price them at a pretty straightforward 'retail' kind of model, as i said: 20% markup on equipment and other similar line items, cover labor and subs and overhead and subs, etc etc, and make a few bucks on each line item.

wondering how that jibes with what others are doing?

Sorry for the long question.

Looking forward to your thoughts.

sh

SAMUEL HALL

FarleyBuilt Solar

617-320-1876