Everything Solar Forum

I am in south Georgia, so not that exact same EMC.

Georgia is not true net metering, which means it's basically never worth it to buy solar panels thinking you will generate income. You just can't compete with the power company that sells energy at 1 rate, then buys it from you at half that rate...and limits your system size.

Specifically I am charged $0.097 for consumption per kw, and paid $0.045 export per kw. I also get tacked with a $35 monthly minimum just to be connected to the grid, and a $7.50 "solar" surcharge for the bi-directional meter (It's the same meter, they just active something on their end. It's not actually a different meter).

I did not have my batteries installed last month, and I consumed 754kwh, and exported 753 kwh, and my bill was $82, plus my solar loan. If you don't invest in batteries, it's just not worth it in Georgia. You can't win if you're trying to make money. I installed solar for other reasons, so I wasn't concerned about making money, and knew it would actually cost me more in the long run because I am paying a loan and still have a power bill, but I was willing to make that sacrifice. Now that I have batteries, I doubt my bill will ever be more than $50. Instead of selling back to the grid during the day, that excess generation will charge my batteries, then I will use battery power mostly at night, and only tap into the grid when i am using more than my inverter/batteries can handle, or my batteries are dead. 25kwh of batteries if you're interested.

Also, on the 10kw system size. That's actually not entirely accurate, and I made that mistake too.​ They limit your export to the grid at 10kw, but you can have more panels than that, you may just have to show them in your settings, and they may monitor to make sure you dont export more than 10kw at a time. I have 12.8kwh of panels, and a 12kw inverter, even though my EMC said my system size had to be limited to 10kwh. It's in the fine print of their contract that the export must be limited to 10kw.

I made a ton of energy efficiency adjustments to my home. Unless you use almost no electricity, you wont have to worry about carry over and anything being eliminated at the end of the year. With all the hidden fee's they add on your bill, it makes it very difficult to do. Hopefully it helps.

------------------------------
Robert Edwards
b1edwards@bop.gov
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2022 12:26 PM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Does anyone have experience in the State of Georgia, specifically with the Jackson EMC serving the North-East part of the State?  I'm getting a mix of information regarding the monthly adjustments and then how the months' carry-over are reconciled and eliminated at years' end.  There is also a 10Kw maximum size limit which can be increased depending on the approval of utility engineers if the local transformers can handle the added load.  A grid-tied system that produces net excess generation is paid back to the customer at a reduced rate, such that there is very little financial incentive to produce more Kwh than what can be consumed.  In other words, size the system to off-set the consumption.  Any insights would be appreciated. 

--

Dennis Garde, AIA, LEED AP

Turkey mobile +90.505.186.27.85

O&M Transition Coordinator, Ankara, Turkey

US mobile: +1.847.624.1983

210 W. Hall Street Apt. A, Savannah, GA 31401

Formerly Facility Manager, US State Department

google: +1.312.772.3720

It's kind of funny, but really not funny, that you can load their pole transformer as much as you want (A 200 amp service is 48KW load max), and they will be smiling all the way to the bank. If your current pole transformer isn't big enough for you needs, they will swap it out for you, or replace it if you blow it up. BUT, lets run that "equation" in the opposite direction. no, no, no. You can't do that. That's not allowed. To many technical issues... but of course there is nothing technical at all. It is just that they can't bill you and even have to pay YOU something for that power. The "problems" with RE in this country are not technical. It IS however all about which way the money is flowing as opposed to the electrons cooperating.
Back in October I wrote an article regarding all this relating to a pilot program my electricity provider is in the process of "running" for 3 years.

https://fcfcfcwearesolar.blogspot.com/2021/10/balancing-load.html

It would be nice in this country if we ever get to a point where we can re-structure our bureaucratic and business systems to actually promote Renewable Energy rather than suppress it. After all it is in our near and long term interests for survival.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2022 10:15 AM
From: Robert Edwards
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

I am in south Georgia, so not that exact same EMC.

Georgia is not true net metering, which means it's basically never worth it to buy solar panels thinking you will generate income. You just can't compete with the power company that sells energy at 1 rate, then buys it from you at half that rate...and limits your system size.

Specifically I am charged $0.097 for consumption per kw, and paid $0.045 export per kw. I also get tacked with a $35 monthly minimum just to be connected to the grid, and a $7.50 "solar" surcharge for the bi-directional meter (It's the same meter, they just active something on their end. It's not actually a different meter).

I did not have my batteries installed last month, and I consumed 754kwh, and exported 753 kwh, and my bill was $82, plus my solar loan. If you don't invest in batteries, it's just not worth it in Georgia. You can't win if you're trying to make money. I installed solar for other reasons, so I wasn't concerned about making money, and knew it would actually cost me more in the long run because I am paying a loan and still have a power bill, but I was willing to make that sacrifice. Now that I have batteries, I doubt my bill will ever be more than $50. Instead of selling back to the grid during the day, that excess generation will charge my batteries, then I will use battery power mostly at night, and only tap into the grid when i am using more than my inverter/batteries can handle, or my batteries are dead. 25kwh of batteries if you're interested.

Also, on the 10kw system size. That's actually not entirely accurate, and I made that mistake too.​ They limit your export to the grid at 10kw, but you can have more panels than that, you may just have to show them in your settings, and they may monitor to make sure you dont export more than 10kw at a time. I have 12.8kwh of panels, and a 12kw inverter, even though my EMC said my system size had to be limited to 10kwh. It's in the fine print of their contract that the export must be limited to 10kw.

I made a ton of energy efficiency adjustments to my home. Unless you use almost no electricity, you wont have to worry about carry over and anything being eliminated at the end of the year. With all the hidden fee's they add on your bill, it makes it very difficult to do. Hopefully it helps.

------------------------------
Robert Edwards
b1edwards@bop.gov

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2022 12:26 PM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Does anyone have experience in the State of Georgia, specifically with the Jackson EMC serving the North-East part of the State?  I'm getting a mix of information regarding the monthly adjustments and then how the months' carry-over are reconciled and eliminated at years' end.  There is also a 10Kw maximum size limit which can be increased depending on the approval of utility engineers if the local transformers can handle the added load.  A grid-tied system that produces net excess generation is paid back to the customer at a reduced rate, such that there is very little financial incentive to produce more Kwh than what can be consumed.  In other words, size the system to off-set the consumption.  Any insights would be appreciated. 

--

Dennis Garde, AIA, LEED AP

Turkey mobile +90.505.186.27.85

O&M Transition Coordinator, Ankara, Turkey

US mobile: +1.847.624.1983

210 W. Hall Street Apt. A, Savannah, GA 31401

Formerly Facility Manager, US State Department

google: +1.312.772.3720

Gentlemen - William Fitch and Robert Edwards, thanks for responding and your clarity of thought.  In an effort to simply move the conversation forward, I'm proceeding with the design recommendations to the Residents with the following strategy.  The annual load of this residence is 18,000 kWh.  It is an all-electric home.  A 12Kw PV system at this location will produce an estimated 17,000 kWh.  The residence is tempered by a geothermal (in-ground) exchange loop which feeds a heat pump for year round, forced air heating and cooling.  Given the utility rules my second strategy choice is to maximize the PV system and balance the annual load with PV production.  My first strategy however is to add a solar thermal system to off-set most of the heating load.  A small thermal system can produce the equivalent of 4,000 kWh.  The system would include a storage tank with dual exchanger coils to 1) preheat domestic water and 2) feed the heat pump directly during the heating season.  Additionally a smaller PV system would be dedicated to off-set the summer cooling load.  Both thermal and PV collectors would tilt to maximize winter and summer production respectively.  Running the numbers will prove up the worth of one strategy over the other.  I would love to hear your thoughts.  Thanks again for your time and dedication to the cause.
Cheers,
Dee Garde

------------------------------
[Dennis] [Garde AIA, LEED AP]
[OMTC, NEC Ankara, Turkey]
[US Dept. of State / OBO]
[Savannah] [GA]
[Dennis.Garde@gmail.com]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-04-2022 10:58 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

It's kind of funny, but really not funny, that you can load their pole transformer as much as you want (A 200 amp service is 48KW load max), and they will be smiling all the way to the bank. If your current pole transformer isn't big enough for you needs, they will swap it out for you, or replace it if you blow it up. BUT, lets run that "equation" in the opposite direction. no, no, no. You can't do that. That's not allowed. To many technical issues... but of course there is nothing technical at all. It is just that they can't bill you and even have to pay YOU something for that power. The "problems" with RE in this country are not technical. It IS however all about which way the money is flowing as opposed to the electrons cooperating.
Back in October I wrote an article regarding all this relating to a pilot program my electricity provider is in the process of "running" for 3 years.

https://fcfcfcwearesolar.blogspot.com/2021/10/balancing-load.html

It would be nice in this country if we ever get to a point where we can re-structure our bureaucratic and business systems to actually promote Renewable Energy rather than suppress it. After all it is in our near and long term interests for survival.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2022 10:15 AM
From: Robert Edwards
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

I am in south Georgia, so not that exact same EMC.

Georgia is not true net metering, which means it's basically never worth it to buy solar panels thinking you will generate income. You just can't compete with the power company that sells energy at 1 rate, then buys it from you at half that rate...and limits your system size.

Specifically I am charged $0.097 for consumption per kw, and paid $0.045 export per kw. I also get tacked with a $35 monthly minimum just to be connected to the grid, and a $7.50 "solar" surcharge for the bi-directional meter (It's the same meter, they just active something on their end. It's not actually a different meter).

I did not have my batteries installed last month, and I consumed 754kwh, and exported 753 kwh, and my bill was $82, plus my solar loan. If you don't invest in batteries, it's just not worth it in Georgia. You can't win if you're trying to make money. I installed solar for other reasons, so I wasn't concerned about making money, and knew it would actually cost me more in the long run because I am paying a loan and still have a power bill, but I was willing to make that sacrifice. Now that I have batteries, I doubt my bill will ever be more than $50. Instead of selling back to the grid during the day, that excess generation will charge my batteries, then I will use battery power mostly at night, and only tap into the grid when i am using more than my inverter/batteries can handle, or my batteries are dead. 25kwh of batteries if you're interested.

Also, on the 10kw system size. That's actually not entirely accurate, and I made that mistake too.​ They limit your export to the grid at 10kw, but you can have more panels than that, you may just have to show them in your settings, and they may monitor to make sure you dont export more than 10kw at a time. I have 12.8kwh of panels, and a 12kw inverter, even though my EMC said my system size had to be limited to 10kwh. It's in the fine print of their contract that the export must be limited to 10kw.

I made a ton of energy efficiency adjustments to my home. Unless you use almost no electricity, you wont have to worry about carry over and anything being eliminated at the end of the year. With all the hidden fee's they add on your bill, it makes it very difficult to do. Hopefully it helps.

------------------------------
Robert Edwards
b1edwards@bop.gov

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2022 12:26 PM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Does anyone have experience in the State of Georgia, specifically with the Jackson EMC serving the North-East part of the State?  I'm getting a mix of information regarding the monthly adjustments and then how the months' carry-over are reconciled and eliminated at years' end.  There is also a 10Kw maximum size limit which can be increased depending on the approval of utility engineers if the local transformers can handle the added load.  A grid-tied system that produces net excess generation is paid back to the customer at a reduced rate, such that there is very little financial incentive to produce more Kwh than what can be consumed.  In other words, size the system to off-set the consumption.  Any insights would be appreciated. 

--

Dennis Garde, AIA, LEED AP

Turkey mobile +90.505.186.27.85

O&M Transition Coordinator, Ankara, Turkey

US mobile: +1.847.624.1983

210 W. Hall Street Apt. A, Savannah, GA 31401

Formerly Facility Manager, US State Department

google: +1.312.772.3720

Ironically the systems you are putting, or want to put in place, are very similar to how my house is done with RE. I have 11.77 KW of PV (At the moment) and gen around 19+MWH a year, with 2X tracking in PA. You are quit a bit sunnier than I am so you have very good projections for a basically fixed array. Solar thermal is wonderful. I hope you will be using evacs over flat plate liquid collectors. Their output is much flatter seasonally and more predictable, less "peaky". I used flats just for my SAHP geo-thermal trench heating in Winter. 
www.WeAreSolar.com is my direct web site if you want more info and details. BTW, do they have, or plan to get EV's? If so that will eat up any excess production. The GROSS usage for EV's is really closer to 2.5 to 3 miles per KWH depending on how much Winter (1/3 more) you have to deal with. So per 10,000 miles you will chew up 3.3 to 4MWH's. 
Good luck with it!! Sounds like it will be fun...

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-05-2022 04:59 AM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Gentlemen - William Fitch and Robert Edwards, thanks for responding and your clarity of thought.  In an effort to simply move the conversation forward, I'm proceeding with the design recommendations to the Residents with the following strategy.  The annual load of this residence is 18,000 kWh.  It is an all-electric home.  A 12Kw PV system at this location will produce an estimated 17,000 kWh.  The residence is tempered by a geothermal (in-ground) exchange loop which feeds a heat pump for year round, forced air heating and cooling.  Given the utility rules my second strategy choice is to maximize the PV system and balance the annual load with PV production.  My first strategy however is to add a solar thermal system to off-set most of the heating load.  A small thermal system can produce the equivalent of 4,000 kWh.  The system would include a storage tank with dual exchanger coils to 1) preheat domestic water and 2) feed the heat pump directly during the heating season.  Additionally a smaller PV system would be dedicated to off-set the summer cooling load.  Both thermal and PV collectors would tilt to maximize winter and summer production respectively.  Running the numbers will prove up the worth of one strategy over the other.  I would love to hear your thoughts.  Thanks again for your time and dedication to the cause.
Cheers,
Dee Garde

------------------------------
[Dennis] [Garde AIA, LEED AP]
[OMTC, NEC Ankara, Turkey]
[US Dept. of State / OBO]
[Savannah] [GA]
[Dennis.Garde@gmail.com]

Original Message:
Sent: 02-04-2022 10:58 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

It's kind of funny, but really not funny, that you can load their pole transformer as much as you want (A 200 amp service is 48KW load max), and they will be smiling all the way to the bank. If your current pole transformer isn't big enough for you needs, they will swap it out for you, or replace it if you blow it up. BUT, lets run that "equation" in the opposite direction. no, no, no. You can't do that. That's not allowed. To many technical issues... but of course there is nothing technical at all. It is just that they can't bill you and even have to pay YOU something for that power. The "problems" with RE in this country are not technical. It IS however all about which way the money is flowing as opposed to the electrons cooperating.
Back in October I wrote an article regarding all this relating to a pilot program my electricity provider is in the process of "running" for 3 years.

https://fcfcfcwearesolar.blogspot.com/2021/10/balancing-load.html

It would be nice in this country if we ever get to a point where we can re-structure our bureaucratic and business systems to actually promote Renewable Energy rather than suppress it. After all it is in our near and long term interests for survival.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2022 10:15 AM
From: Robert Edwards
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

I am in south Georgia, so not that exact same EMC.

Georgia is not true net metering, which means it's basically never worth it to buy solar panels thinking you will generate income. You just can't compete with the power company that sells energy at 1 rate, then buys it from you at half that rate...and limits your system size.

Specifically I am charged $0.097 for consumption per kw, and paid $0.045 export per kw. I also get tacked with a $35 monthly minimum just to be connected to the grid, and a $7.50 "solar" surcharge for the bi-directional meter (It's the same meter, they just active something on their end. It's not actually a different meter).

I did not have my batteries installed last month, and I consumed 754kwh, and exported 753 kwh, and my bill was $82, plus my solar loan. If you don't invest in batteries, it's just not worth it in Georgia. You can't win if you're trying to make money. I installed solar for other reasons, so I wasn't concerned about making money, and knew it would actually cost me more in the long run because I am paying a loan and still have a power bill, but I was willing to make that sacrifice. Now that I have batteries, I doubt my bill will ever be more than $50. Instead of selling back to the grid during the day, that excess generation will charge my batteries, then I will use battery power mostly at night, and only tap into the grid when i am using more than my inverter/batteries can handle, or my batteries are dead. 25kwh of batteries if you're interested.

Also, on the 10kw system size. That's actually not entirely accurate, and I made that mistake too.​ They limit your export to the grid at 10kw, but you can have more panels than that, you may just have to show them in your settings, and they may monitor to make sure you dont export more than 10kw at a time. I have 12.8kwh of panels, and a 12kw inverter, even though my EMC said my system size had to be limited to 10kwh. It's in the fine print of their contract that the export must be limited to 10kw.

I made a ton of energy efficiency adjustments to my home. Unless you use almost no electricity, you wont have to worry about carry over and anything being eliminated at the end of the year. With all the hidden fee's they add on your bill, it makes it very difficult to do. Hopefully it helps.

------------------------------
Robert Edwards
b1edwards@bop.gov

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2022 12:26 PM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Does anyone have experience in the State of Georgia, specifically with the Jackson EMC serving the North-East part of the State?  I'm getting a mix of information regarding the monthly adjustments and then how the months' carry-over are reconciled and eliminated at years' end.  There is also a 10Kw maximum size limit which can be increased depending on the approval of utility engineers if the local transformers can handle the added load.  A grid-tied system that produces net excess generation is paid back to the customer at a reduced rate, such that there is very little financial incentive to produce more Kwh than what can be consumed.  In other words, size the system to off-set the consumption.  Any insights would be appreciated. 

--

Dennis Garde, AIA, LEED AP

Turkey mobile +90.505.186.27.85

O&M Transition Coordinator, Ankara, Turkey

US mobile: +1.847.624.1983

210 W. Hall Street Apt. A, Savannah, GA 31401

Formerly Facility Manager, US State Department

google: +1.312.772.3720

I am not as well versed in the geothermal production, because it was not really an option where I live. 

"The annual load of this residence is 18,000 kWh.  It is an all-electric home.  A 12Kw PV system at this location will produce an estimated 17,000 kWh." 

While this may be true, that 18,000kWh is spread 24/7 and the PV production is obviously limited. Without a battery system, the residence will be forced to sell back all that excess PV production at a reduced rate, which kills any cost efficiency. What I personally did to calculate my own PV and PV storage needs, is I exported an entire years worth of data from my power company, broken down into 15 minute intervals. I took a few days a month and calculated my day vs night consumption and found I was about 60% day, 40% night fairly consistently throughout the year. This allowed me to get an estimate on how much storage capacity I needed.

Unfortunately, to really meet my "Needs" based on my math would require a massive amount of batteries if I did not make any other adjustments to our power usage. I did make some considerable changes, including changing to a heat-pump water heater, all LED lighting, and a few other minor things. this has definitely helped reduce my overall energy consumption. During the winter I averaged 27kWh day, 19kWh night, and during the summer 47kWh day, 32kWh night. This data however was before I made any energy efficiency changes to my home.

My heat pump water heater that I installed to reduce my consumption would be similar to your solar powered heater I assume. The goal is to reduce energy consumption for high kWh appliances. My heat pump water heater was about $2,000 installed, and averages 2.7kWh a day consumption. I have it programmed in "Eco" mode where it only uses the elements when hot water is depleted, and also have it programmed where it heats up water to 130 for 2 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the evening when 90% of our hot water is consumed. The rest of the time it sits at 90 (basically turned off), however it is so well insulated that it retains the 130 degree water for several hours. I would check the cost effectiveness of this vs a solar water heater you mentioned above. 10 year warranty on the heat pump (Rheem brand, available at home depot), and if the heat pump does fail, I still have 2 heating elements just like a traditional water heater, while still retaining full wifi control and programmability. If at any time I need hot water, I can manually adjust the temp or mode on the pump itself, or on my phone. Twice we've been on vacation, and I just turn the whole thing off for days at a time, then on our way back, turn it back on!

Just a thought. 

------------------------------
Robert Edwards
b1edwards@bop.gov
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-05-2022 04:59 AM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Gentlemen - William Fitch and Robert Edwards, thanks for responding and your clarity of thought.  In an effort to simply move the conversation forward, I'm proceeding with the design recommendations to the Residents with the following strategy.  The annual load of this residence is 18,000 kWh.  It is an all-electric home.  A 12Kw PV system at this location will produce an estimated 17,000 kWh.  The residence is tempered by a geothermal (in-ground) exchange loop which feeds a heat pump for year round, forced air heating and cooling.  Given the utility rules my second strategy choice is to maximize the PV system and balance the annual load with PV production.  My first strategy however is to add a solar thermal system to off-set most of the heating load.  A small thermal system can produce the equivalent of 4,000 kWh.  The system would include a storage tank with dual exchanger coils to 1) preheat domestic water and 2) feed the heat pump directly during the heating season.  Additionally a smaller PV system would be dedicated to off-set the summer cooling load.  Both thermal and PV collectors would tilt to maximize winter and summer production respectively.  Running the numbers will prove up the worth of one strategy over the other.  I would love to hear your thoughts.  Thanks again for your time and dedication to the cause.
Cheers,
Dee Garde

------------------------------
[Dennis] [Garde AIA, LEED AP]
[OMTC, NEC Ankara, Turkey]
[US Dept. of State / OBO]
[Savannah] [GA]
[Dennis.Garde@gmail.com]

Original Message:
Sent: 02-04-2022 10:58 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

It's kind of funny, but really not funny, that you can load their pole transformer as much as you want (A 200 amp service is 48KW load max), and they will be smiling all the way to the bank. If your current pole transformer isn't big enough for you needs, they will swap it out for you, or replace it if you blow it up. BUT, lets run that "equation" in the opposite direction. no, no, no. You can't do that. That's not allowed. To many technical issues... but of course there is nothing technical at all. It is just that they can't bill you and even have to pay YOU something for that power. The "problems" with RE in this country are not technical. It IS however all about which way the money is flowing as opposed to the electrons cooperating.
Back in October I wrote an article regarding all this relating to a pilot program my electricity provider is in the process of "running" for 3 years.

https://fcfcfcwearesolar.blogspot.com/2021/10/balancing-load.html

It would be nice in this country if we ever get to a point where we can re-structure our bureaucratic and business systems to actually promote Renewable Energy rather than suppress it. After all it is in our near and long term interests for survival.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2022 10:15 AM
From: Robert Edwards
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

I am in south Georgia, so not that exact same EMC.

Georgia is not true net metering, which means it's basically never worth it to buy solar panels thinking you will generate income. You just can't compete with the power company that sells energy at 1 rate, then buys it from you at half that rate...and limits your system size.

Specifically I am charged $0.097 for consumption per kw, and paid $0.045 export per kw. I also get tacked with a $35 monthly minimum just to be connected to the grid, and a $7.50 "solar" surcharge for the bi-directional meter (It's the same meter, they just active something on their end. It's not actually a different meter).

I did not have my batteries installed last month, and I consumed 754kwh, and exported 753 kwh, and my bill was $82, plus my solar loan. If you don't invest in batteries, it's just not worth it in Georgia. You can't win if you're trying to make money. I installed solar for other reasons, so I wasn't concerned about making money, and knew it would actually cost me more in the long run because I am paying a loan and still have a power bill, but I was willing to make that sacrifice. Now that I have batteries, I doubt my bill will ever be more than $50. Instead of selling back to the grid during the day, that excess generation will charge my batteries, then I will use battery power mostly at night, and only tap into the grid when i am using more than my inverter/batteries can handle, or my batteries are dead. 25kwh of batteries if you're interested.

Also, on the 10kw system size. That's actually not entirely accurate, and I made that mistake too.​ They limit your export to the grid at 10kw, but you can have more panels than that, you may just have to show them in your settings, and they may monitor to make sure you dont export more than 10kw at a time. I have 12.8kwh of panels, and a 12kw inverter, even though my EMC said my system size had to be limited to 10kwh. It's in the fine print of their contract that the export must be limited to 10kw.

I made a ton of energy efficiency adjustments to my home. Unless you use almost no electricity, you wont have to worry about carry over and anything being eliminated at the end of the year. With all the hidden fee's they add on your bill, it makes it very difficult to do. Hopefully it helps.

------------------------------
Robert Edwards
b1edwards@bop.gov

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2022 12:26 PM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Does anyone have experience in the State of Georgia, specifically with the Jackson EMC serving the North-East part of the State?  I'm getting a mix of information regarding the monthly adjustments and then how the months' carry-over are reconciled and eliminated at years' end.  There is also a 10Kw maximum size limit which can be increased depending on the approval of utility engineers if the local transformers can handle the added load.  A grid-tied system that produces net excess generation is paid back to the customer at a reduced rate, such that there is very little financial incentive to produce more Kwh than what can be consumed.  In other words, size the system to off-set the consumption.  Any insights would be appreciated. 

--

Dennis Garde, AIA, LEED AP

Turkey mobile +90.505.186.27.85

O&M Transition Coordinator, Ankara, Turkey

US mobile: +1.847.624.1983

210 W. Hall Street Apt. A, Savannah, GA 31401

Formerly Facility Manager, US State Department

google: +1.312.772.3720

I wouldn't consider an adjustable solar thermal if I was just using it for preheating your domestic hot water.  You get more solar in the summer, maybe not the 3 to 1 difference of the flat plate hot water collector, but with longer summer hours, I'd just fix it for your optimum winter collection and be happy with the year round output.
Not having any significant AC load here in Maine, I'm blown away with the size of your systems, but will need to expand mine (double it) when I decide to purchase a EV.  Presently, I am about 1 kW short of being Net-zero electric with just over 4 KW of PVs.  Our utilities have gone back to net energy billing, giving us rolling solar credits that are good for 12 months.  The minimum utility customer charge is $14/month, and without an additional kW I have bills of about $160/month for Jan & Feb ($0.18/kWh) and typically a small charge on the shoulder months of March and maybe December.  For heating, I use a mini split DX heat pump and a cord or two of wood.  I intend to add a second heat pump, at a later date, so might need another 2 kW of solar, and much less wood.  I do have my old Heliodyne flat plate hot water system (which now is at least 2Xs too big). This is for a 3,000 sf house on the cold & windy coast of Maine.  The house has excellent orientation for my passive solar heat gain and a superinsulated building envelope.  I am holding back on adding the 2nd heat pump, as it would primarily heat the 'children's wing', and nobody's using it, though it may someday turn into an in-law apartment.  So currently my electric bills total about $600/year and wood cost are $450.  I will definitely add another kW of PV (1250 kWh/yr) and then wait to buy the EV with the solar charging station.  (My other car is a 2014 Prius and I'm in no rush to take on car payments along with the additional solar, so I walk a lot.  Luckily, I live in  a very pretty neighborhood and don't put on but a couple thousand miles/year on my vehicles.)

------------------------------
Michael Mayhew
President, Sr. Energy Engineer
Heliotropic Technologies
coolsolarguy@yahoo.com
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-05-2022 04:59 AM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Gentlemen - William Fitch and Robert Edwards, thanks for responding and your clarity of thought.  In an effort to simply move the conversation forward, I'm proceeding with the design recommendations to the Residents with the following strategy.  The annual load of this residence is 18,000 kWh.  It is an all-electric home.  A 12Kw PV system at this location will produce an estimated 17,000 kWh.  The residence is tempered by a geothermal (in-ground) exchange loop which feeds a heat pump for year round, forced air heating and cooling.  Given the utility rules my second strategy choice is to maximize the PV system and balance the annual load with PV production.  My first strategy however is to add a solar thermal system to off-set most of the heating load.  A small thermal system can produce the equivalent of 4,000 kWh.  The system would include a storage tank with dual exchanger coils to 1) preheat domestic water and 2) feed the heat pump directly during the heating season.  Additionally a smaller PV system would be dedicated to off-set the summer cooling load.  Both thermal and PV collectors would tilt to maximize winter and summer production respectively.  Running the numbers will prove up the worth of one strategy over the other.  I would love to hear your thoughts.  Thanks again for your time and dedication to the cause.
Cheers,
Dee Garde

------------------------------
[Dennis] [Garde AIA, LEED AP]
[OMTC, NEC Ankara, Turkey]
[US Dept. of State / OBO]
[Savannah] [GA]
[Dennis.Garde@gmail.com]

Original Message:
Sent: 02-04-2022 10:58 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

It's kind of funny, but really not funny, that you can load their pole transformer as much as you want (A 200 amp service is 48KW load max), and they will be smiling all the way to the bank. If your current pole transformer isn't big enough for you needs, they will swap it out for you, or replace it if you blow it up. BUT, lets run that "equation" in the opposite direction. no, no, no. You can't do that. That's not allowed. To many technical issues... but of course there is nothing technical at all. It is just that they can't bill you and even have to pay YOU something for that power. The "problems" with RE in this country are not technical. It IS however all about which way the money is flowing as opposed to the electrons cooperating.
Back in October I wrote an article regarding all this relating to a pilot program my electricity provider is in the process of "running" for 3 years.

https://fcfcfcwearesolar.blogspot.com/2021/10/balancing-load.html

It would be nice in this country if we ever get to a point where we can re-structure our bureaucratic and business systems to actually promote Renewable Energy rather than suppress it. After all it is in our near and long term interests for survival.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2022 10:15 AM
From: Robert Edwards
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

I am in south Georgia, so not that exact same EMC.

Georgia is not true net metering, which means it's basically never worth it to buy solar panels thinking you will generate income. You just can't compete with the power company that sells energy at 1 rate, then buys it from you at half that rate...and limits your system size.

Specifically I am charged $0.097 for consumption per kw, and paid $0.045 export per kw. I also get tacked with a $35 monthly minimum just to be connected to the grid, and a $7.50 "solar" surcharge for the bi-directional meter (It's the same meter, they just active something on their end. It's not actually a different meter).

I did not have my batteries installed last month, and I consumed 754kwh, and exported 753 kwh, and my bill was $82, plus my solar loan. If you don't invest in batteries, it's just not worth it in Georgia. You can't win if you're trying to make money. I installed solar for other reasons, so I wasn't concerned about making money, and knew it would actually cost me more in the long run because I am paying a loan and still have a power bill, but I was willing to make that sacrifice. Now that I have batteries, I doubt my bill will ever be more than $50. Instead of selling back to the grid during the day, that excess generation will charge my batteries, then I will use battery power mostly at night, and only tap into the grid when i am using more than my inverter/batteries can handle, or my batteries are dead. 25kwh of batteries if you're interested.

Also, on the 10kw system size. That's actually not entirely accurate, and I made that mistake too.​ They limit your export to the grid at 10kw, but you can have more panels than that, you may just have to show them in your settings, and they may monitor to make sure you dont export more than 10kw at a time. I have 12.8kwh of panels, and a 12kw inverter, even though my EMC said my system size had to be limited to 10kwh. It's in the fine print of their contract that the export must be limited to 10kw.

I made a ton of energy efficiency adjustments to my home. Unless you use almost no electricity, you wont have to worry about carry over and anything being eliminated at the end of the year. With all the hidden fee's they add on your bill, it makes it very difficult to do. Hopefully it helps.

------------------------------
Robert Edwards
b1edwards@bop.gov

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2022 12:26 PM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Does anyone have experience in the State of Georgia, specifically with the Jackson EMC serving the North-East part of the State?  I'm getting a mix of information regarding the monthly adjustments and then how the months' carry-over are reconciled and eliminated at years' end.  There is also a 10Kw maximum size limit which can be increased depending on the approval of utility engineers if the local transformers can handle the added load.  A grid-tied system that produces net excess generation is paid back to the customer at a reduced rate, such that there is very little financial incentive to produce more Kwh than what can be consumed.  In other words, size the system to off-set the consumption.  Any insights would be appreciated. 

--

Dennis Garde, AIA, LEED AP

Turkey mobile +90.505.186.27.85

O&M Transition Coordinator, Ankara, Turkey

US mobile: +1.847.624.1983

210 W. Hall Street Apt. A, Savannah, GA 31401

Formerly Facility Manager, US State Department

google: +1.312.772.3720

As a side note, I love reading all these "houses" with their different load and production "schemes". It is a great example of how variable the "real world" is regarding matching production and load over time. I think a solid case can be made for over designing RE systems so as to always have your load covered despite increases in load do to various changes in the "structure", environment and its use requirements... decade over decade...

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 01-29-2022 12:26 PM
From: Dennis Garde
Subject: Georgia Utility Rates for Excess PV Production

Does anyone have experience in the State of Georgia, specifically with the Jackson EMC serving the North-East part of the State?  I'm getting a mix of information regarding the monthly adjustments and then how the months' carry-over are reconciled and eliminated at years' end.  There is also a 10Kw maximum size limit which can be increased depending on the approval of utility engineers if the local transformers can handle the added load.  A grid-tied system that produces net excess generation is paid back to the customer at a reduced rate, such that there is very little financial incentive to produce more Kwh than what can be consumed.  In other words, size the system to off-set the consumption.  Any insights would be appreciated. 

--

Dennis Garde, AIA, LEED AP

Turkey mobile +90.505.186.27.85

O&M Transition Coordinator, Ankara, Turkey

US mobile: +1.847.624.1983

210 W. Hall Street Apt. A, Savannah, GA 31401

Formerly Facility Manager, US State Department

google: +1.312.772.3720