Everything Solar Forum

communities_1.jpg

 View Only
Expand all | Collapse all

Hardening against EMP

  • 1.  Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-19-2023 10:32 AM
    As the 2024 solar maximum approaches, and I consider the risk (albeit small) of a coronal mass ejection taking down the grid, I wonder what advice our experts here have about hardening our  PV system (including storage) against an electromagnetic pulse.  Faraday cages around the balance of system components?  Factory-hardened inverters?  Something equivalent to a lightning surge protector?

    Signed,
    (slightly) Paranoid in Montana


  • 2.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-20-2023 10:29 AM

    Large split FERRITE beads, installed at the end of each roof string, as well as just before the inverter, would help to squash any "spike" that might appear across the array strings as a result of solar flares, EMPs, or whatever... May not be 100% effective, but definitely worth the LOW COST and EASE OF INSTALLATION.... I've done this on most of the jobs I've done over the last 2 years... Paranoid? Maybe, but as the saying goes - "an ounce of prevention...." 



    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-20-2023 12:13 PM

    Seems like most folks in the solar crowd these days either don't understand how serious of a threat this is or they just don't want to talk about it. There's a documentary film titled "Grid Down-Power Up" that covers this topic very well.

    Thank you Joe for the advice on safeguarding our systems 



    ------------------------------
    Robert Mellon
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-20-2023 11:45 AM

    Many installations in western Massachusetts have lightning protection for both AC and DC.  A couple of years ago, it was necessary to replace the lightning arrester  for a customer who had a nearby lightning strike.  The charge controller and bypass diodes in the PV modules also needed replacement.



    ------------------------------
    Stu Besnoff
    owner
    Alpine Solar Heat and Hot Water, LLC
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-20-2023 01:20 PM
    Edited by william fitch 12-20-2023 01:23 PM

    Other than our own nukes at 100 miles high, if the Sun pushes out anything like the Carrington event in our intercept direction, it will not be pretty. All comms will be down even if you protect some local client nodes. With out the cell towers and sat receivers/transmitters its all dead. Large transformers can take months or years to make and get to a site in normal circumstances, let alone one like this. And without electric there is no refrigeration, no food storage, and the rest of the dots you can connect. We are forced back to the horse and plow with 8 Billion. 

    In studying very old tree rings and other bio on the planet, history shows we have been hit by far stronger flares than even Carrington. A bit further back than the telegraph and Morse code, or the single key stroke telegraph, texting.

    As for why the lack of interest, we have Fascism gaining big traction right under our noses, with a far, far greater percentage of actualization than Super flares, and we can not even bring accountability, send a message and take care of business (FL) to avoid a 1930's - 1940's European re-boot in the USA.

     Merry Xmas and yes, surge suppressors on AC and DC is always a good idea.



    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-20-2023 02:42 PM
    Can you educate us on how a CME at that distance would induce a sizeable EMP anywhere here? Even if there were a shared polarity in pulse or pulses it's hard to believe it could be sizeable. It would make more sense to defend it against nuclear attack, not that anyone would.

       -- Jan Galkowski,
           Westwood, MA





  • 7.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-20-2023 02:49 PM

    If I recall correctly, just shortly after we criss crossed the usa with telegraph lines, there was a significant coronal event, and it pretty much TOASTED all the telegraph lines.  nothing to say this couldn't happen again... I'm pretty sure this is well documented in the history books...



    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-20-2023 03:03 PM
      |   view attached



    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    s41598-019-38918-8.pdf   1.49 MB 1 version


  • 9.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-20-2023 03:11 PM





  • 10.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-21-2023 07:44 AM
    Edited by william fitch 12-21-2023 07:56 AM

    Assuming this was asked in my direction, I am not sure what you are asking here.

    You say CME so I assume you are talking sun based rather than Nuclear Suicide (No immunization exists, Nuclear Winter, devastating Nuclear Summer)

    "...a CME at that distance would induce a sizeable EMP anywhere here?"

    You verbiage suggests a hypothetical structure. There is no hypothetical here. It is well documented history. 

    "The Carrington Event of 1859 was a massive geomagnetic storm triggered by activity on the sun. People saw auroras at low latitudes that were bright enough to read by."

    Telegraph operators unplugged there batteries due to heat ups and fires, only to find that their keys and coils still functioned, and they were able to still send and receive by the induced currents in the lines. The only thing immune to all induced EMR is optical and fiber based. But that does not cover that which powers the lasers or the lasers themselves (Semi-conductor based), and all other related electrical equipment.

    As I mentioned in my other post, we have been hit by EMR (X ray and Geomagnetic) events far, far greater in the past. But stones and clubs are immune.

    Probability is about 1% per year. We had a narrow miss in Summer 2012 (Yes, the Movie year) by a week or so. But as they say, close only counts in horse races. It will happen probably before we kill our selves off. Its just a question of when. Tomorrow or 100 years. There is probably a running bet out there on this event I would think.



    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-21-2023 08:08 AM

    Thank you all for you comments and recommendations.  I feel quite a bit validated in my concerns after hearing from you all.

    It seems to me that distributed energy, especially solar, could provide a great deal of personal and community resilience to the threat of a major solar storm, but I don't hear much (anything) from manufacturers about what steps they have taken to harden their equipment or recommendations for installers.

    It also seems like this could be a topic for further discussion within ASES, either as a track at Solar 2024 or as an issue of Solar Today, or (preferably) both.

    @Kat Friedrich, do you have any ideas about how to progress the discussion in the wider community?

    Thanks again, everyone!



    ------------------------------
    Mark Juedeman
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-21-2023 08:58 AM

    SOl-Ark has been offering "EMP Hardened" inverters for quite some time, and I've heard that others are following this trend. 



    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-21-2023 01:26 PM

    Our December 2024 issue of Solar Today will focus on disaster resilience. You could certainly send me a two-paragraph pitch at kfriedrich@ases.org if you are interested in writing an article. 

    You might be interested in the story I wrote on a related subject for Popular Mechanics: 
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/infrastructure/a41857548/solar-storms-could-destroy-internet-infrastructure/

    (The Popular Mechanics website sometimes allows viewers to read articles without being subscribers and sometimes does not.)



    ------------------------------
    Kat Friedrich
    Editor in Chief
    American Solar Energy Society
    Monona WI
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-21-2023 03:51 PM

    Thanks Kat!  I wish I had the knowledge, experience, and connections to write such an article--perhaps some of the other more well-informed folks here might be interested?

    Thanks also for the link to your Popular Mechanics article.  Right on target.



    ------------------------------
    Mark Juedeman
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Posted 12-21-2023 08:08 AM

    I quoted and linked a detailed report on the Carrington event. While it is possible it's not clear what would happen if 1859 were repeated today.



    ------------------------------
    Jan Galkowski
    retired; amateur quant bryologist; solar advocate
    Westwood MA
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-21-2023 09:52 PM
    Edited by M Keith Sharp 12-21-2023 09:56 PM

    Fitch, I will take your word for it that there is a 1% chance of an EMP event.

    Just want to point out that in many parts of the country, there are already higher percentage power disruptions (from tornadoes, hurricanes, floods, accidents, even just freezing weather in TX). Resilience to power outages is becoming a greater concern with climate change. EMP just adds another source, although the outage may be more wide-spread.

    Fitch, I know you have a passive solar home. Ours has not been below 68F indoors this winter, no electricity required. Nighttime outdoor temperatures have been in the teens. We seem to average about two power outages per year, but I never worry about them causing the house to become uncomfortable.

    Sky radiation instead of electricity can provide refrigeration, but that is a different topic.



    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-22-2023 01:39 AM

    Actually its Active Solar and Geo-thermal. 

    "EMP just adds another source,.."

    EMP or CME's are a very different event than Weather related events. Half the planet will get hit roughly at the same time, at a min., depending on how many hours, how many "pluses" the event produces. No two are the same. 

    I remember very vividly the Halloween CME generated Northern lights, watching from central PA. I grew up in NH where Northern Lights and Milky Way viewing were common. However, the best and most spectacular N.L. I have ever seen were the ones in 2002, from said CME. The only time I ever saw Red.



    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-22-2023 09:44 AM

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CHRG-112hhrg80856/html/CHRG-112hhrg80856.htm#:~:text=According%20to%20this%20Oak%20Ridge,power%20collapse%20from%20electromagnetic%20pulses.

    "According to this Oak Ridge Study, the collapse of our power system could impact 130 million Americans, require 4 to 10 years to fully recover and impose economic costs of $1 to $2 trillion. The National electric grid has almost no backup capability in the event of a power collapse from electromagnetic pulses."

    EMPs are yet another reason not to rely on electricity for everything.



    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Hardening against EMP

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-22-2023 11:21 AM

    Broad stroking, Super-insulated houses made their "play" back in the 80's. All the numbers were there. All the benefits were outlined. I wish I had a dollar for every article and spec I read on vapor barriers.

    There was this one black caulk that was popular for holding 6 mil poly to the studs. It made flypaper seem like Teflon. The stickiest stuff I have ever seen. A real PITA to work with. 

    Simpler ways are now available, thank god. But the bottom line is the building industry on mass (Pun intended) is about time, cost, replication ease. Are there exceptions? Sure. But exceptions will not win the day. 

    But yes, putting all you eggs in one basket design is never a good defense against Murphy. He will take you down.



    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------