Everything Solar Forum

Hi Kat:

I was looking through the many suggestions.  Seems to me "Grid Harmonization" kind of covers many of the suggestions, the technologies, systems, plants, broadband, etc. A utility perspective on this would be interesting too. I have a big interest and focus on thermal storage, especially hot water.  Everyone talks electric batteries, but if you want to displace natural and other heating fuels (a big part of GHG gases), making a lot of hot water, in storage (1000's of small tanks, big ones like 3 MW, etc. Running hot water through heating systems, heat pumps (coming and going), etc.  Chilled water too.  Especially commercial, institutional, schools, where most of the energy is needed. And all the related controls, monitoring, dispatching. 

A wind turbine, on a cold windy night, can deliver electric heat at 2 cents a kW-hr, beating natural gas by a factor of 2. Without a heat pump. Solar should never be curtailed, just put in hot water when electric batteries are full. The marginal cost of RE systems are cheap. 

From the utility perspective I want to see and know more about the operation and advancements for "distribution substations".  Most importantly, bi-directional operation and safety issues, which seems to be the main issue with electrical engineers. Forget about transmission and MISO, PJM, just build and control RE inside the distribution systems. That's where the action should be, local, equitable, ownership by people and public power.

Just thinking.

Steve :-)

Heating and cooling (especially industrial uses) represents a huge renewable opportunity.

Dave Roberts does a deep dive that's worth a listen - and some 100 year old solutions from the blast furnace industry are being dusted off to store that otherwise curtailed green energy.

Why electrifying industrial heat is such a big deal volts.wtf

Andrew Stone, President

NM People's Energy Cooperative

https://PeoplesEnergyCoop.com

Together A Just Energy Transition

¡Sí, hablo Español!

Original Message:
Sent: 3/28/2023 5:41:00 PM
From: Steven Smiley
Subject: Technology suggestions for Solar Today articles

Hi Kat:

I was looking through the many suggestions.  Seems to me "Grid Harmonization" kind of covers many of the suggestions, the technologies, systems, plants, broadband, etc. A utility perspective on this would be interesting too. I have a big interest and focus on thermal storage, especially hot water.  Everyone talks electric batteries, but if you want to displace natural and other heating fuels (a big part of GHG gases), making a lot of hot water, in storage (1000's of small tanks, big ones like 3 MW, etc. Running hot water through heating systems, heat pumps (coming and going), etc.  Chilled water too.  Especially commercial, institutional, schools, where most of the energy is needed. And all the related controls, monitoring, dispatching. 

A wind turbine, on a cold windy night, can deliver electric heat at 2 cents a kW-hr, beating natural gas by a factor of 2. Without a heat pump. Solar should never be curtailed, just put in hot water when electric batteries are full. The marginal cost of RE systems are cheap. 

From the utility perspective I want to see and know more about the operation and advancements for "distribution substations".  Most importantly, bi-directional operation and safety issues, which seems to be the main issue with electrical engineers. Forget about transmission and MISO, PJM, just build and control RE inside the distribution systems. That's where the action should be, local, equitable, ownership by people and public power.

Just thinking.

Steve :-)

------------------------------
Steven smiley
President
Smiley Energy Services, LLC
------------------------------

Hi Kat:

I was looking through the many suggestions.  Seems to me "Grid Harmonization" kind of covers many of the suggestions, the technologies, systems, plants, broadband, etc. A utility perspective on this would be interesting too. I have a big interest and focus on thermal storage, especially hot water.  Everyone talks electric batteries, but if you want to displace natural and other heating fuels (a big part of GHG gases), making a lot of hot water, in storage (1000's of small tanks, big ones like 3 MW, etc. Running hot water through heating systems, heat pumps (coming and going), etc.  Chilled water too.  Especially commercial, institutional, schools, where most of the energy is needed. And all the related controls, monitoring, dispatching. 

A wind turbine, on a cold windy night, can deliver electric heat at 2 cents a kW-hr, beating natural gas by a factor of 2. Without a heat pump. Solar should never be curtailed, just put in hot water when electric batteries are full. The marginal cost of RE systems are cheap. 

From the utility perspective I want to see and know more about the operation and advancements for "distribution substations".  Most importantly, bi-directional operation and safety issues, which seems to be the main issue with electrical engineers. Forget about transmission and MISO, PJM, just build and control RE inside the distribution systems. That's where the action should be, local, equitable, ownership by people and public power.

Just thinking.

Steve :-)

------------------------------
Steven smiley
President
Smiley Energy Services, LLC
------------------------------

@Steven Smiley @william fitch@Andrew Stone, 

I have been curious about prospects for including more articles on industrial technologies in Solar Today since I joined ASES last summer. I'd like to hear more about what large corporations are doing to implement RE. David Roberts sometimes digs into these subjects, but overall, they are not receiving a lot of coverage in energy news. We have one article on industrial decarbonization in our spring issue which is from Cliff Ho's team at Sandia National Laboratories.

Generally speaking, for Solar Today, I'm interested in concrete articles that focus on implementation and provide practical insights. 

Solar thermal is not in the spotlight often and should be mentioned more. I just shared a link to a solar thermal video from Canary Media with our team at ASES for possible inclusion in our social feeds and/or the Solar@work newsletter. 

------------------------------
Kat Friedrich
Editor in Chief
ASES

Original Message:
Sent: 03-28-2023 02:41 PM
From: Steven Smiley
Subject: Technology suggestions for Solar Today articles

Hi Kat:

I was looking through the many suggestions.  Seems to me "Grid Harmonization" kind of covers many of the suggestions, the technologies, systems, plants, broadband, etc. A utility perspective on this would be interesting too. I have a big interest and focus on thermal storage, especially hot water.  Everyone talks electric batteries, but if you want to displace natural and other heating fuels (a big part of GHG gases), making a lot of hot water, in storage (1000's of small tanks, big ones like 3 MW, etc. Running hot water through heating systems, heat pumps (coming and going), etc.  Chilled water too.  Especially commercial, institutional, schools, where most of the energy is needed. And all the related controls, monitoring, dispatching. 

A wind turbine, on a cold windy night, can deliver electric heat at 2 cents a kW-hr, beating natural gas by a factor of 2. Without a heat pump. Solar should never be curtailed, just put in hot water when electric batteries are full. The marginal cost of RE systems are cheap. 

From the utility perspective I want to see and know more about the operation and advancements for "distribution substations".  Most importantly, bi-directional operation and safety issues, which seems to be the main issue with electrical engineers. Forget about transmission and MISO, PJM, just build and control RE inside the distribution systems. That's where the action should be, local, equitable, ownership by people and public power.

Just thinking.

Steve :-)

------------------------------
Steven smiley
President
Smiley Energy Services, LLC
------------------------------

Hi Kat:

I was looking through the many suggestions.  Seems to me "Grid Harmonization" kind of covers many of the suggestions, the technologies, systems, plants, broadband, etc. A utility perspective on this would be interesting too. I have a big interest and focus on thermal storage, especially hot water.  Everyone talks electric batteries, but if you want to displace natural and other heating fuels (a big part of GHG gases), making a lot of hot water, in storage (1000's of small tanks, big ones like 3 MW, etc. Running hot water through heating systems, heat pumps (coming and going), etc.  Chilled water too.  Especially commercial, institutional, schools, where most of the energy is needed. And all the related controls, monitoring, dispatching. 

A wind turbine, on a cold windy night, can deliver electric heat at 2 cents a kW-hr, beating natural gas by a factor of 2. Without a heat pump. Solar should never be curtailed, just put in hot water when electric batteries are full. The marginal cost of RE systems are cheap. 

From the utility perspective I want to see and know more about the operation and advancements for "distribution substations".  Most importantly, bi-directional operation and safety issues, which seems to be the main issue with electrical engineers. Forget about transmission and MISO, PJM, just build and control RE inside the distribution systems. That's where the action should be, local, equitable, ownership by people and public power.

Just thinking.

Steve :-)

------------------------------
Steven smiley
President
Smiley Energy Services, LLC
------------------------------

Hi,

Objectively I am in favor of thermal storage with water!

Water-based thermal storage can be more efficient and more cost-effective than electric batteries for space heating applications in places where heat demand is high (Anchorage, Newyork city) and predictable (Schools, offices, shopping malls, multi-family buildings). I let those who can, to verify the claim by comparing the overall system efficiency and cost performance of 3 cases for heating a large hospital in Newyork for example!

Case 1- Sun --->solar thermal collector--->water thermos --->space to heat

Case 2- Sun --->Solar PV system --->heat pump--->water thermos --->space to heat

Case 3- Sun --->solar PV system ---->lithium battery --->heat pump--->space to heat

Water-based heat storage certainly has a low energy density compared to phase change material (PCM), however, this fact is often "exaggerated" as there is plenty of space around buildings to install water thermos. Parking lots, basements, garages, gardens, septic tank places, …. In many cases, it is feasible to install a 20m3 water tank (eg: 3-meter side cube or 20ft container) underground or above ground for a centralized thermal storage unit. When costs, environmental concerns, and scalability are taken into account, PCMs often don't stand a chance over water. In fact for cooling, there are companies using ice as a natural clean PCM.

I also think that distributed water thermos in tens to hundreds of cubic meters can be a good solution to limit peak power, solar/wind curtailment, pressure on batteries materials mining, and so on. As the saying "don't put all eggs in one basket" diversifying energy systems components can improve the security of energy services. Even if solar thermal turns out to be slightly more expensive than solar PV+heat pump, it can be good to keep solar thermal in the energy mix. Everything electric sounds nice, but it can be scary if you think of what if the electric system goes wrong. 

out of topic: I went to a restaurant few days ago, and the waiter said I can see the menu only by scanning the QR code on the table. No paper menu anymore. I said so if I don't have a smartphone I can't eat, no battery I can't eat, if no internet I can't eat, if your website got hacked ...... he said yes no food, it is a tech world!

Before closing, I would share these 2 articles about water-based thermal storage projects one up to 5m3 and the other 50.000m3. 

February 15, 2023 "PILOT PROJECT IN SEATTLE SHOWS CENTRAL HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS CAN ACT AS MASSIVE HOT WATER BATTERIES THAT HELP REDUCE CARBON EMISSIONS"

June 30, 2022 " A steel 'thermos tower' in Berlin will be the largest heat storage facility in Europe"

Hi Kat:

I was looking through the many suggestions.  Seems to me "Grid Harmonization" kind of covers many of the suggestions, the technologies, systems, plants, broadband, etc. A utility perspective on this would be interesting too. I have a big interest and focus on thermal storage, especially hot water.  Everyone talks electric batteries, but if you want to displace natural and other heating fuels (a big part of GHG gases), making a lot of hot water, in storage (1000's of small tanks, big ones like 3 MW, etc. Running hot water through heating systems, heat pumps (coming and going), etc.  Chilled water too.  Especially commercial, institutional, schools, where most of the energy is needed. And all the related controls, monitoring, dispatching. 

A wind turbine, on a cold windy night, can deliver electric heat at 2 cents a kW-hr, beating natural gas by a factor of 2. Without a heat pump. Solar should never be curtailed, just put in hot water when electric batteries are full. The marginal cost of RE systems are cheap. 

From the utility perspective I want to see and know more about the operation and advancements for "distribution substations".  Most importantly, bi-directional operation and safety issues, which seems to be the main issue with electrical engineers. Forget about transmission and MISO, PJM, just build and control RE inside the distribution systems. That's where the action should be, local, equitable, ownership by people and public power.

Just thinking.

Steve :-)

Hi,

Objectively I am in favor of thermal storage with water!

Water-based thermal storage can be more efficient and more cost-effective than electric batteries for space heating applications in places where heat demand is high (Anchorage, Newyork city) and predictable (Schools, offices, shopping malls, multi-family buildings). I let those who can, to verify the claim by comparing the overall system efficiency and cost performance of 3 cases for heating a large hospital in Newyork for example!

Case 1- Sun --->solar thermal collector--->water thermos --->space to heat

Case 2- Sun --->Solar PV system --->heat pump--->water thermos --->space to heat

Case 3- Sun --->solar PV system ---->lithium battery --->heat pump--->space to heat

Water-based heat storage certainly has a low energy density compared to phase change material (PCM), however, this fact is often "exaggerated" as there is plenty of space around buildings to install water thermos. Parking lots, basements, garages, gardens, septic tank places, …. In many cases, it is feasible to install a 20m3 water tank (eg: 3-meter side cube or 20ft container) underground or above ground for a centralized thermal storage unit. When costs, environmental concerns, and scalability are taken into account, PCMs often don't stand a chance over water. In fact for cooling, there are companies using ice as a natural clean PCM.

I also think that distributed water thermos in tens to hundreds of cubic meters can be a good solution to limit peak power, solar/wind curtailment, pressure on batteries materials mining, and so on. As the saying "don't put all eggs in one basket" diversifying energy systems components can improve the security of energy services. Even if solar thermal turns out to be slightly more expensive than solar PV+heat pump, it can be good to keep solar thermal in the energy mix. Everything electric sounds nice, but it can be scary if you think of what if the electric system goes wrong. 

out of topic: I went to a restaurant few days ago, and the waiter said I can see the menu only by scanning the QR code on the table. No paper menu anymore. I said so if I don't have a smartphone I can't eat, no battery I can't eat, if no internet I can't eat, if your website got hacked ...... he said yes no food, it is a tech world!

Before closing, I would share these 2 articles about water-based thermal storage projects one up to 5m3 and the other 50.000m3. 

February 15, 2023 "PILOT PROJECT IN SEATTLE SHOWS CENTRAL HEAT PUMP WATER HEATERS CAN ACT AS MASSIVE HOT WATER BATTERIES THAT HELP REDUCE CARBON EMISSIONS"

June 30, 2022 " A steel 'thermos tower' in Berlin will be the largest heat storage facility in Europe"

Hi Kat:

I was looking through the many suggestions.  Seems to me "Grid Harmonization" kind of covers many of the suggestions, the technologies, systems, plants, broadband, etc. A utility perspective on this would be interesting too. I have a big interest and focus on thermal storage, especially hot water.  Everyone talks electric batteries, but if you want to displace natural and other heating fuels (a big part of GHG gases), making a lot of hot water, in storage (1000's of small tanks, big ones like 3 MW, etc. Running hot water through heating systems, heat pumps (coming and going), etc.  Chilled water too.  Especially commercial, institutional, schools, where most of the energy is needed. And all the related controls, monitoring, dispatching. 

A wind turbine, on a cold windy night, can deliver electric heat at 2 cents a kW-hr, beating natural gas by a factor of 2. Without a heat pump. Solar should never be curtailed, just put in hot water when electric batteries are full. The marginal cost of RE systems are cheap. 

From the utility perspective I want to see and know more about the operation and advancements for "distribution substations".  Most importantly, bi-directional operation and safety issues, which seems to be the main issue with electrical engineers. Forget about transmission and MISO, PJM, just build and control RE inside the distribution systems. That's where the action should be, local, equitable, ownership by people and public power.

Just thinking.

Steve :-)