Everything Solar Forum

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

Thank you, Wyldon.

The installations that I saw were very large and definitely tracking in two planes (e.g., facing sun when I saw them at two different times during the day).

I'm interested in examples of large commercial trackers that would be at suitable scale for arrays at our maximum cap (50kW) and operating experience and costs.

Thanks again!

------------------------------
Mark Juedeman
mjuedeman@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 11:11 AM
From: Wyldon Fishman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

Hi: Actually you get about 30 to 40% more. If you take my 1.8 number and compare to a 1.3 number that is a difference of .5 which is around 38% more energy than 1.3. And depending on your location, it could go as high as 45% in very clear sky country. SO it can be worth it depending on the exact circumstances.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 11:11 AM
From: Wyldon Fishman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

Mark -
     I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general. As we say in Maine there is a more efficient method to 'track the sun' with a PV array, either d-i-y (move the pole mounted array by hand), or as Dr Rich Komp would say, "Just purchase additional PV modules, since the one thing you can count on with tracking mechanisms is ... 'All' mechanical operations 'will break-down'" eventually !  The 13-15% increase in PV output (coupled with the possible breakdown rate) is enough to get yourself additional PV modules, without the 'headaches' ! The fixed array will never have 'mechanical malfunction' and you will enjoy the morning sun as well as the evening solar energy ! All modules will be affected when the weather erupts, whether on a tracker of fixed system. Yes, my three cents, free advise !

------------------------------
John Burke
Director, MESEA, Maine
Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
Jonesport ME
dadsolar@yahoo.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 11:11 AM
From: Wyldon Fishman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

Hello John,

Thanks for your reply!  I understand that for smaller systems there may be no advantages to active two-axis tracking systems.  Indeed, we have two small arrays of manual-tilt 1-axis pole mount systems at our family ranch which we tilt seasonally, with very good results.

However, I am interested in the economics of active 2-axis tracking in the case where very large arrays are involved, where we are at our investor-owned utility cap of 50kW for net metering.  Specifically, as we look to significantly increase our city government's investment in renewable energy, obtaining a 40-45% increase (PVWATTS suggests 44% for our city) in annual production where there is no opportunity for adding capacity nor feasible manual tilting, might be helpful.

What I am really hoping for is that someone in Vermont or elsewhere who has contacts with operators of those very large tracking arrays might be able to make a connection with me, so that I can get a sense of the economics of those systems.  If you know anyone, please send them my way!


------------------------------
Mark Juedeman
mjuedeman@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2022 09:37 AM
From: John Burke
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Mark -
     I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general. As we say in Maine there is a more efficient method to 'track the sun' with a PV array, either d-i-y (move the pole mounted array by hand), or as Dr Rich Komp would say, "Just purchase additional PV modules, since the one thing you can count on with tracking mechanisms is ... 'All' mechanical operations 'will break-down'" eventually !  The 13-15% increase in PV output (coupled with the possible breakdown rate) is enough to get yourself additional PV modules, without the 'headaches' ! The fixed array will never have 'mechanical malfunction' and you will enjoy the morning sun as well as the evening solar energy ! All modules will be affected when the weather erupts, whether on a tracker of fixed system. Yes, my three cents, free advise !

------------------------------
John Burke
Director, MESEA, Maine
Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
Jonesport ME
dadsolar@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 11:11 AM
From: Wyldon Fishman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

"I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general."
This question is really fact based as opposed to "open" opinion. Whether it is worthwhile or not is really pretty much based on the percentage of direct solar energy as opposed to diffuse energy. If there were no such thing as clouds and all solar energy was direct everywhere, Tracking would be the "No-Brainer" default for solar energy gathering. If the opposite were true that ALL SOLAR energy was diffuse do to constant cloud cover (The Matrix real world), tracking would not exist for there would be zero benefit. SO the relationship between the two regarding the percentage of each, is what determines viability.
Then as bells and whistles in addition, such as unjust rules such as energy caps, etc.. can of course play into the financial aspects for the decision process. Size in and of itself is really not a factor as such. If the system as a non tracker is enough to make a worthwhile solar contribution, then if the direct energy percentage is average in the area, the tracking extra amount will probably be of worthwhile consideration from an energy harvest perspective (Usually 1/3 more over the year).

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2022 09:37 AM
From: John Burke
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Mark -
     I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general. As we say in Maine there is a more efficient method to 'track the sun' with a PV array, either d-i-y (move the pole mounted array by hand), or as Dr Rich Komp would say, "Just purchase additional PV modules, since the one thing you can count on with tracking mechanisms is ... 'All' mechanical operations 'will break-down'" eventually !  The 13-15% increase in PV output (coupled with the possible breakdown rate) is enough to get yourself additional PV modules, without the 'headaches' ! The fixed array will never have 'mechanical malfunction' and you will enjoy the morning sun as well as the evening solar energy ! All modules will be affected when the weather erupts, whether on a tracker of fixed system. Yes, my three cents, free advise !

------------------------------
John Burke
Director, MESEA, Maine
Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
Jonesport ME
dadsolar@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 11:11 AM
From: Wyldon Fishman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

William -
     As you have stated there are the 'fuzzy' aspects involved with the 'clouds' and diffused solar energy from weather and other 'unknowns' including vegetation/trees and what not ! The 'fact' you're neglecting to mention for Mark is ... 'mechanical anything, breaks down, which keeps the 'mechanics' busy everyday' ! Maybe they'll be busy on 'your operation', maybe not, but the solar operation my be 'on-hold' until the 'fix' is found and the 'guarantee' remains ion effect ! ... Mechanical systems break down, no matter where or what for ! There is a bit of 'luck' involved with any solar system, ...oh, and some forethought ! We have solar PV that we have used for 40+ years and others that we have used for 25+ years ! We are still here in coastal Maine with 'off-grid' solar homes, and we're the mechanics, if we need one ! Thanks for your three cents, William !

------------------------------
John Burke
Director, MESEA, Maine
Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
Jonesport ME
dadsolar@yahoo.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2022 11:01 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

"I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general."
This question is really fact based as opposed to "open" opinion. Whether it is worthwhile or not is really pretty much based on the percentage of direct solar energy as opposed to diffuse energy. If there were no such thing as clouds and all solar energy was direct everywhere, Tracking would be the "No-Brainer" default for solar energy gathering. If the opposite were true that ALL SOLAR energy was diffuse do to constant cloud cover (The Matrix real world), tracking would not exist for there would be zero benefit. SO the relationship between the two regarding the percentage of each, is what determines viability.
Then as bells and whistles in addition, such as unjust rules such as energy caps, etc.. can of course play into the financial aspects for the decision process. Size in and of itself is really not a factor as such. If the system as a non tracker is enough to make a worthwhile solar contribution, then if the direct energy percentage is average in the area, the tracking extra amount will probably be of worthwhile consideration from an energy harvest perspective (Usually 1/3 more over the year).

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2022 09:37 AM
From: John Burke
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Mark -
     I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general. As we say in Maine there is a more efficient method to 'track the sun' with a PV array, either d-i-y (move the pole mounted array by hand), or as Dr Rich Komp would say, "Just purchase additional PV modules, since the one thing you can count on with tracking mechanisms is ... 'All' mechanical operations 'will break-down'" eventually !  The 13-15% increase in PV output (coupled with the possible breakdown rate) is enough to get yourself additional PV modules, without the 'headaches' ! The fixed array will never have 'mechanical malfunction' and you will enjoy the morning sun as well as the evening solar energy ! All modules will be affected when the weather erupts, whether on a tracker of fixed system. Yes, my three cents, free advise !

------------------------------
John Burke
Director, MESEA, Maine
Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
Jonesport ME
dadsolar@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 11:11 AM
From: Wyldon Fishman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

I will keep this short. If mechanical breakdowns were the over riding concern, we wouldn't drive cars would we. And at the end of the day, if a tracker breaks down, you are left with a fully functioning stationary array, that which YOU apparently are happy with 24/365. So, how bad can that be....

Advice. Be rational with your decision.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2022 12:41 PM
From: John Burke
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

William -
     As you have stated there are the 'fuzzy' aspects involved with the 'clouds' and diffused solar energy from weather and other 'unknowns' including vegetation/trees and what not ! The 'fact' you're neglecting to mention for Mark is ... 'mechanical anything, breaks down, which keeps the 'mechanics' busy everyday' ! Maybe they'll be busy on 'your operation', maybe not, but the solar operation my be 'on-hold' until the 'fix' is found and the 'guarantee' remains ion effect ! ... Mechanical systems break down, no matter where or what for ! There is a bit of 'luck' involved with any solar system, ...oh, and some forethought ! We have solar PV that we have used for 40+ years and others that we have used for 25+ years ! We are still here in coastal Maine with 'off-grid' solar homes, and we're the mechanics, if we need one ! Thanks for your three cents, William !

------------------------------
John Burke
Director, MESEA, Maine
Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
Jonesport ME
dadsolar@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2022 11:01 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

"I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general."
This question is really fact based as opposed to "open" opinion. Whether it is worthwhile or not is really pretty much based on the percentage of direct solar energy as opposed to diffuse energy. If there were no such thing as clouds and all solar energy was direct everywhere, Tracking would be the "No-Brainer" default for solar energy gathering. If the opposite were true that ALL SOLAR energy was diffuse do to constant cloud cover (The Matrix real world), tracking would not exist for there would be zero benefit. SO the relationship between the two regarding the percentage of each, is what determines viability.
Then as bells and whistles in addition, such as unjust rules such as energy caps, etc.. can of course play into the financial aspects for the decision process. Size in and of itself is really not a factor as such. If the system as a non tracker is enough to make a worthwhile solar contribution, then if the direct energy percentage is average in the area, the tracking extra amount will probably be of worthwhile consideration from an energy harvest perspective (Usually 1/3 more over the year).

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-18-2022 09:37 AM
From: John Burke
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Mark -
     I have to add my three cents here, and agree with Wyldon, that there are 'very little' advantages to tracking systems in general. As we say in Maine there is a more efficient method to 'track the sun' with a PV array, either d-i-y (move the pole mounted array by hand), or as Dr Rich Komp would say, "Just purchase additional PV modules, since the one thing you can count on with tracking mechanisms is ... 'All' mechanical operations 'will break-down'" eventually !  The 13-15% increase in PV output (coupled with the possible breakdown rate) is enough to get yourself additional PV modules, without the 'headaches' ! The fixed array will never have 'mechanical malfunction' and you will enjoy the morning sun as well as the evening solar energy ! All modules will be affected when the weather erupts, whether on a tracker of fixed system. Yes, my three cents, free advise !

------------------------------
John Burke
Director, MESEA, Maine
Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
Jonesport ME
dadsolar@yahoo.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 11:11 AM
From: Wyldon Fishman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

A lot of the Vermont arrays are on what looks like trackers but are just tall structures that look like trackers and do not rotate. Fitch is right, though. Get about 13% more electricity with the trackers. I'd go for the manual tilt: up for summer and more vertical for winter. Modules weigh so much now I have now idea how that'd work these days.

------------------------------
Wyldon Fishman
Bronx NY
wyldon1@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

Thanks for all this, William!

I should have been more complete, and shared that I am looking to provide input to our City government for any future solar projects.  These would be installations at the max cap (50kW), hence my interest in large scale tracking experience.

Thanks again,
Mark

------------------------------
Mark Juedeman
mjuedeman@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-13-2022 09:52 AM
From: william fitch
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

I built two of these systems. The Alpha was for myself and the Beta was for one of my solar thermal customers. As you surmise, O&M does happen with trackers. Wind loadings are high as well, easy to underestimate. But, I do get at this location about 1.8 MWH's per year for every 1 KW installed. A flat South array at this location would be about 1.2 to 1.3 per KW.
Remember trackers only benefit you for the direct sunlight energy. There is no benefit for diffuse. SO the greater the direct component, the greater the yield compared.
These trackers I designed are Pseudo Polar axis. They track Easy to West and I adjust twice a year manually for Summer VS Winter. Takes me about 20 minutes for all six.
If you are talking about 50KW systems, that's 100+ panels, so probably 25 or more panels a tracker assuming "2-axis" tracking. Those will carry a hefty price tag for commercial trackers like that.
Positioning them, do a North South row spaced for December 21st shadow. This way side shadowing is never an issue.

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

------------------------------
Robert Mellon
nmellon@verizon.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

Thank you for sharing your experience, Robert!  While I am especially interested in large-scale tracking systems appropriate for systems at our maximum cap of 50kW, this is helpful in case we ever add ground mounts to our home array.

Thanks again!

------------------------------
Mark Juedeman
mjuedeman@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 04:50 AM
From: Robert Mellon
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Mark,
I am located in western Pennsylvania and we have a 5640 watt roof mounted array that was installed in 2012. In 2020 my wife and I bought a pole mounted solar time tracker kit that is 4800 watts. The wife and I assembled and installed the pole mount system in late 2020 and our local electrician helped us with the connections to the grid in January of 2021. The tracker system uses a plc to move the array from east to west once an hour every day and then returns to the east home position at end of day. It also has an automated tilt program that adjusts the tilt once an hour during the summer. During spring, fall and winter I am able to manually adjust the tilt angle with the push of a button and I do adjust it once a month to attain the best overall tilt angle for the particular month. So far this year the roof mounted array has produced 5,644,702 watts and the pole mounted array has produced 6,242,749 watts. We discontinued using our natural gas furnace when we added a Mitsubishi mini split heat pump which also provides air conditioning in the summer. We plan to keep our natural gas fireplace as a backup heating source. Eventually we will remodel the kitchen and switch to induction cooktop etc. So far we have enough net metered credits to cover the monthly customer service fee that our electric utility charges everyone for the privilege of being connected to the grid. The pole mounted array structure has several grease fittings that require grease twice a year but other than that there isn't any maintenance. 

------------------------------
Robert Mellon
nmellon@verizon.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

You're lucky.. .Most utility companies are now "excluding" the GENERATION, TRANSMISSION, and DELIVERY costs from what can be covered by your solar credits. With DUKE, this amounts to 35 to 40 dollars each month. So even if you have a POSITIVE CREDIT, it would NOT apply toward this 35 or 40 dollar fee!!!!!   This started in California, and it's spreading fast!!! It's already hit Cincinnati, OH.  Good luck!

------------------------------
Joe Utasi
PV Solar Consultant
Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
joe@cincihomesolar.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 04:50 AM
From: Robert Mellon
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Mark,
I am located in western Pennsylvania and we have a 5640 watt roof mounted array that was installed in 2012. In 2020 my wife and I bought a pole mounted solar time tracker kit that is 4800 watts. The wife and I assembled and installed the pole mount system in late 2020 and our local electrician helped us with the connections to the grid in January of 2021. The tracker system uses a plc to move the array from east to west once an hour every day and then returns to the east home position at end of day. It also has an automated tilt program that adjusts the tilt once an hour during the summer. During spring, fall and winter I am able to manually adjust the tilt angle with the push of a button and I do adjust it once a month to attain the best overall tilt angle for the particular month. So far this year the roof mounted array has produced 5,644,702 watts and the pole mounted array has produced 6,242,749 watts. We discontinued using our natural gas furnace when we added a Mitsubishi mini split heat pump which also provides air conditioning in the summer. We plan to keep our natural gas fireplace as a backup heating source. Eventually we will remodel the kitchen and switch to induction cooktop etc. So far we have enough net metered credits to cover the monthly customer service fee that our electric utility charges everyone for the privilege of being connected to the grid. The pole mounted array structure has several grease fittings that require grease twice a year but other than that there isn't any maintenance. 

------------------------------
Robert Mellon
nmellon@verizon.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman

Come on Joe. I was in a rare good mood about the future of the world today. Now you turned it into a fleeting moment....
Oh well... that's life....

------------------------------
william fitch
Owner
www.WeAreSolar.com
fcfcfc@ptd.net
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 10-17-2022 12:56 PM
From: Joe Utasi
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

You're lucky.. .Most utility companies are now "excluding" the GENERATION, TRANSMISSION, and DELIVERY costs from what can be covered by your solar credits. With DUKE, this amounts to 35 to 40 dollars each month. So even if you have a POSITIVE CREDIT, it would NOT apply toward this 35 or 40 dollar fee!!!!!   This started in California, and it's spreading fast!!! It's already hit Cincinnati, OH.  Good luck!

------------------------------
Joe Utasi
PV Solar Consultant
Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
joe@cincihomesolar.com

Original Message:
Sent: 10-14-2022 04:50 AM
From: Robert Mellon
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Mark,
I am located in western Pennsylvania and we have a 5640 watt roof mounted array that was installed in 2012. In 2020 my wife and I bought a pole mounted solar time tracker kit that is 4800 watts. The wife and I assembled and installed the pole mount system in late 2020 and our local electrician helped us with the connections to the grid in January of 2021. The tracker system uses a plc to move the array from east to west once an hour every day and then returns to the east home position at end of day. It also has an automated tilt program that adjusts the tilt once an hour during the summer. During spring, fall and winter I am able to manually adjust the tilt angle with the push of a button and I do adjust it once a month to attain the best overall tilt angle for the particular month. So far this year the roof mounted array has produced 5,644,702 watts and the pole mounted array has produced 6,242,749 watts. We discontinued using our natural gas furnace when we added a Mitsubishi mini split heat pump which also provides air conditioning in the summer. We plan to keep our natural gas fireplace as a backup heating source. Eventually we will remodel the kitchen and switch to induction cooktop etc. So far we have enough net metered credits to cover the monthly customer service fee that our electric utility charges everyone for the privilege of being connected to the grid. The pole mounted array structure has several grease fittings that require grease twice a year but other than that there isn't any maintenance. 

------------------------------
Robert Mellon
nmellon@verizon.net

Original Message:
Sent: 10-12-2022 09:14 AM
From: Mark Juedeman
Subject: Tracking Ground-Mount Solar experience

Hello All,

Here in Montana, within IOU service territories, net metering is capped at 50kW installed capacity.

Several years ago I traveled to Vermont, and was impressed by all the large pole-mount tracking systems.  It seems that those would be really helpful here as well, to produce quite a bit more than would be allowed by a fixed array.  With our cap, the adage that it is cheaper to add more panels than to have a tracking system may not be true (if we are at the limit).

Is there anyone on this forum who has experience with the large 2-axis tracking systems who can talk with me about the advantages and disadvantages of such?  I assume that reliability and cost of maintenance and repair might be issues, but maybe not?

Thanks!

Mark Juedeman