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  • 1.  Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-13-2022 11:51 AM
    In addition to recapping the week's solar news, we will discuss
    a variety of issues, from Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, and Line Side Connections.
    Each Tuesday at noon (Eastern) solarPVtraining.com hosts a Zoom sessions for students (or anyone, really) interested in solar. Generally discussion focuses on technical questions, problems or troubleshooting - or just what is happening in solar that week.
     
    Join Zoom Meeting each Tuesday at
    https://zoom.us/j/91067004366?pwd=b1d...
     
    Meeting ID: 910 6700 4366
    Password: 625623



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    Jay Warmke
    Owner
    Blue Rock Station LLC
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  • 2.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-14-2022 10:08 PM
    Thanks so much for sharing, Jay! These are such interesting topics, I look forward to watching the recorded webinar soon.

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    Ella Nielsen
    Membership & Engagement Manager
    American Solar Energy Society
    Boulder CO
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-15-2022 09:01 AM
    Edited by william fitch 12-15-2022 09:21 AM
    Fusion! GOD! To be fair though, it has always been there for humans since our earliest beginnings. Every sunny day or twinkle twinkle little star (I wonder why they call them little), I know where you are. 
    Man controlled release Fusion.10 years away for the past 60 years.

    If I were a gambler or odds broker, I would make the bet:
    Practical Fusion or Nuclear Suicide. Which do we achieve first?
    I give better odds to suicide. (Doomsday clock in my corner)

    Being blunt, (of course when am I not) it is an effort underneath to suppress the adoption rate of RE technologies (Solar, wind, geothermal microwave drilling, tidal, etc..) for the really big "pot of Tritium" at the end of the EMR rainbow, a universal stall technique to keep the FFI flowing and more money relayed over to Fission "whatever" (BOOM money). Jennifer Granholm got her job because she has always been very "Atom" friendly from the beginning. She was positioned for a Neo-Nuclear renaissance after all the tarnishments from TMI to Fuk.

    When you think about it, back on December 21st, 2021, JET's tokamak near Oxford, UK, produced 59 megajoules of energy over a fusion 'pulse' of 5 seconds. The Joint European Torus (JET) set a world record ignition, that hardly got Boo in the TV mainstream press. Now with a tiny net positive on a tiny ignition if you don't count any of the real input power required (Energy to power the lasers), the story practically jumps out of your morning coffee cup, to your evening drug of choice container. Fusion!! All this TV press just doesn't happen by accident. You have to ask what is the real agenda and the real WHY?. Business yes, but for who? Too cheap to meter!!
    Ya, OK...




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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-16-2022 10:52 AM
    I heard the DOE say "commercialization of fusion is still decades away". And yet, fusion is actually 8.3 minutes away.

    Andrew Stone
    Community Led Community Solar
    ¡Sí, hablo Español













    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-16-2022 01:52 PM
    The lasers required approximately 100 times more electrical input energy than their output optical energy, and the fusion energy was just barely larger than the laser output. Can the process be made ~100 times more efficient? It is quite the challenge.

    Novan Energy (remember them?) had t-shirts that said, "Nuclear energy is safe ... 93 million miles away."

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    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-16-2022 08:02 PM
    Yes, but the problem is the sun doesn't have an account with the central banking system.

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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    Posted 12-17-2022 08:19 AM
    My thinking about the fusion media hype is this:
    1) At what cost $$$$?
     Can fusion electricity ever come close to the cost of renewable generated electricity...NO!
    2) A fusion reaction creates heat not electricity, which then has to utilize another complicated system to turn that heat into electricity.
    Sure sounds like large amounts of water will be required.... will that be readily available in our future world?
    3) Who pays for this super expensive complex of machines, certainly not local rate payers.
    The cost will fall to all US tax payers.
    4) How long will it take to build one of these complicated behemoths once the technology is available... decades?
    5) Who's back yard are we going to build it in?
    6) Who's  going  to insure this beast, no company will touch it, again it will fall to all tax payers.
    How can the cost of fusion generated electricity ever compete with renewables...
    It can't!
    The bottom line makes the economics of renewables the winner today and in the future.
    Don't be fooled by this media hype.

    Happy Holidays my friends.

    Steve Kawell 
    Keller Williams Realty Southwest Associates 
    (970)769-3904



    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    Posted 12-20-2022 09:38 PM
    Surprised by the vociferous reaction to the fusion announcement. I dont see solar and fusion competing with each other. Solar is here and now, while fusion is decades away from commercialization. Can fusion compete with renewables in the future? - maybe, although they have some serious barriers to overcome. The biggest is getting enough Tritium to sustain commercial penetration. But to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum's character in  the movie Jurassic Park, "Science finds a way" and "Science will not be contained".  Look at it this way: PV cells for a real life application were initially developed by NASA, and used for the first time on the Vanguard I satellite in 1958. If at that time anybody said that solar cells would provide electricity at a competitive cost, the consensus would be "It cant". Now 64 years later look where we are. Where will fusion be in 64 years?  I dont know but it is not hype or a scam, and I am not afraid of it. Who will pay for it ? - the taxpayers of course, same who pays for everything, including solar. Look at the numbers. Solar tax incentives are costing the US taxpayer about $10 B per year combined with about $15 B annually in the Department of energy's budget for clean energy. What is the DOE's annual budget for fusion?  $700 M, 35 times less than the federal solar expenditures.  In addition, the Inflation Reduction Act has the capability to triple the total solar tax incentives' cost to the public going forward. Me personally as a US taxpayer,  I am quite comfortable with both the solar and the fusion costs that I pay.



    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Zoom Discussion - Solar Scammers, Nuclear Fusion, Line Side Connections, and more

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-21-2022 07:22 AM
    Edited by william fitch 12-21-2022 07:38 AM
    ""Science finds a way" and "Science will not be contained". That's one hell of a paraphrase substituting Science for life. 
    Science is merely the understanding of what is. Science is the observation of a good tasting meal, not the meal itself or its enjoyment.

    I don't think people are afraid of Fusion, at least not the controlled slow release kind, and certainly not the one 91 million miles away. With that said, I am sure on this planet you can find someone who is afraid of anything, real or other wise.

    I think the realistic concern, is the out of the blue 'over hype' and the motivations behind it. The goal of the hype is not the suppression or advancement of Fusion, but the suppression of the now RE which continues to threaten the FFI and all upstream and downstream connected entrenched interests.. and probably some more side action for Fission.

    In engineering terms of 50 or 100 years from now, the more important question is do we want to keep a centralized energy model in place making missile attacks more effective on whoever, wherever, or do we want a distributed energy     infrastructure placing production as close as possible to load which solar, wind, etc. is ideal for and available now, cost wise and scale wise. No one ever has to fear a Solar leak of sunshine (The re-threatening of Chernobyl via Putin).

    Grid tie solar with off grid capability is the best model for energy security and Greenhouse gases reduction. The return on solar investments (Tax dollars or direct) and related tech are now, and can solve the problems of now. Fusion is an expensive toy at this point because it offers nothing for our now problems, unlike RE. Might Fusion have a place in the Future if achieved?  Maybe. As in the movie "Aliens", planetary     terraforming perhaps on LV-426... less the eggs...

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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
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    Original Message