Everything Solar Forum

communities_1.jpg

 View Only
Expand all | Collapse all

SOL-ARK 1st install!

  • 1.  SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 06-17-2022 10:00 AM

    I installed my very first SOL-ARK OFF GRID system over the weekend. A sol-ark 12K.  3 strings of 10 panels and two 10KWh LiFePo4 batteries (owner will expand to 4 total as budget allows). VERY nicely designed system that includes CAN BUS BMS comms to the batteries. Hooked it up, turned it on, programmed a few battery parameters and IT RUNS PERFECTLY!  When battery is charged, it curtails charging and powers the house as needed, up to 9KW continuous. BEAUTIFULLY DESIGNED GRAPHIC PANEL makes even a rookie understand EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE SYSTEM!  Highly recommend this for OFF GRID or GRID TIED – since it allows prioritizing what goes where and when in simple easy to follow menu screens. KUDOS to Sol Ark!!

     

     


    Virus-free. www.avg.com


  • 2.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 06-20-2022 09:38 AM
    If you don't mind, approx. TOTAL cost per Watt.
    .....Bill

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 06-20-2022 10:22 AM

    30 Older panels 7500 watts = $3750, racking $1000, 12K Sol-Ark inverter $7000, 3  10KWH ATLAS LiFePo4 batteries $7500 . 

     

    Inverter output is 9000 watts continuous, so lets use that as the divisor to get cost per usable off-grid watt.  3750+ 1000+7000+7500 all / 9000 = $2.14/watt of useable 240VAC.

     

    Keep in mind that this is with 30KWh of storage. Homeowner can add up to 3 more batteries as he sees fit to extend his storage capacity as he adds loads to his home by simply plugging them in parallel.  The batteries include Anderson powerpole connectors on the bottom, and expansion is as simple as "plug and play". CANBUS comms to the inverter make it idiot proof.

     

    No "labor" costs were included, since the homeowner provided the work crew (relatives, dad, wife, friends). If you wanted this done turnkey, I suspect it would be closer to 5 or 6 bucks/watt or more...   DIY saves a lot of money...


    Virus-free. www.avg.com





  • 4.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 06-20-2022 05:14 PM
    DIY definitely saves allot money.
    Thanks...
    .....Bill

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 06-21-2022 07:53 PM
    Edited by william fitch 06-21-2022 08:20 PM
    Hi: I took a close look at your price list. A point of note. Do I correctly read that you got 30 KWH's of Li batteries for $7500? That is about the same cost (Almost) that I just paid for my high end lead. In my research of Li battery pricing, well lets just say, it is unheard of. Li in every single case I have dug into, is always AT LEAST twice the cost of lead or MORE. 
    As an example, the SimpliPhi AmpliPHI LFP 3.8kWh 48 VDC battery retail on line is $3000 which would be $30,000 for 38 KWH's. These are often used with Sol-Ark. inverters.
    Now if you said $7500 each for $22,500 tot for 30 KWH, I would have said that would have been a decent or more usual price.
    In short the above example is $789 per KWH, me at $230 per KWH and you at $250 per KWH.
    Now $22,500 for 30 KWH would have been $750 per KWH, a decent price.



    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 06-22-2022 04:57 AM
      |   view attached
    no error. the pricing is legit. Talk to Darrell Rasmussen at AtlasEnergySolutions dot com and see for  yourself.  I pride myself on being a smart shopper.  The next best pricing on LiFePo4 is from YIY in China, but the ocean freight creates a situation where it only makes sense if you're buying 4 or more.  I have 4 of the YIY 10KW packs on my home off grid system.

    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 07-04-2022 09:03 AM
    Edited by william fitch 07-04-2022 09:13 AM
    Hi Joe: I contacted your source and person. I posed a specific question to him regarding expected design life in a float application vs the more normal daily use duty cycles and DOD. His response I found misaligned with the questions. I contacted him as a possible "backup direction" to the lead acid solution that I still don't have "in my hands" due to availability delays. I have gotten 2 short I-phone responses from him, neither answered the question I asked. I am responding to him one more time for engineered float life in years. I proposed a 40KWH solution. There best data on their site is a general 6000 cycle life number under unknown DOD. The company I referenced in my initial cost comparison comment has their normal use as 10,000 cycles at 80% DOD. 
    If interested, I will keep you updated on his final response if it comes.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 06-22-2022 05:40 AM
    @william fitch
    My assumption based on this price is that they are not UL listed, meaning would he attempt to grid connect a utility will not allow it. Being off grid, that's completely fine and I would do the exact same thing, so it's not a knock to the install at all.​ There's tons of lipo batteries you can get for super cheap, i've even seen them with built in inverters, but they are Chinese and are not UL listed so you would not be able to grid tie them (again not a knock, if I was fully off grid I would do the EXACT same thing).

    I also use that exact same sol-ark inverter but ARK batteries. My batteries are 5k 100amp, $2600 each installed.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Edwards
    b1edwards@bop.gov
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 06-22-2022 08:00 AM
    The Atlas LiFePo4 battery is UL listed by the manufacturer, but not under the ATLAS brand. it IS, pending under the ATLAS brand at the present time, however - just checked with Atlas!

    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 06-23-2022 05:20 AM
    Thanks for the update...

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 06-22-2022 10:50 AM
    First off, I in NO WAY implied or even hinted that his install was somehow inferior. I merely pointed that the dollar numbers were way different than the current typical price out in the market regarding Li batteries. 
    Moving on from a comment that I should not have to be defending, if in fact the solid 3 fold increase over the batteries offered as a UL "construct" only is true (I have my doubts for a single vector explain), It would speak very badly for the state of affairs around such an old and well established certification.
    I wish him nothing but the best with his new additions.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 06-23-2022 04:55 AM

    First off, I in NO WAY implied or even hinted that his install was somehow inferior. I merely pointed that the dollar numbers were way different than the current typical price out in the market regarding Li batteries. 
    Moving on from a comment that I should not have to be defending, if in fact the solid 3 fold increase over the batteries offered as a UL "construct" only is true (I have my doubts for a single vector explain), It would speak very badly for the state of affairs around such an old and well established certification.
    I wish him nothing but the best with his new additions.
    william fitch,  06-22-2022 10:50 AM
    What are you talking about? What are you having to defend exactly? Who claimed his install was inferior?

    I was simply pointing out in my own research I can easily find batteries much cheaper than the ones I installed, but I would not be able to grid tie them because they aren't UL Listed. I spent months trying to find an option that would save me money, and couldn't find one that had the UL certification, and I was very frustrated about it. I agree most list price on batteries are much higher than he just stated. That's it. Not a knock to anyone.
    Pretty sure I was clear in the fact I would have done the exact same thing he did, use a less expensive battery if I wasn't grid tied and had to use UL listed. Not sure why you are so easily offended, but no one was attacking you. Not sure what exactly you are defending. I think its amazing he was able to 1 do it himself, and 2 save as much money as he did.

    ------------------------------
    Robert Edwards
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 06-23-2022 05:19 AM
    Edited by william fitch 06-23-2022 05:48 AM
    "so it's not a knock to the install at all.​"
    and again:
    "not be able to grid tie them (again not a knock, "

    You "back end" 
    implied that my questioning of his price numbers, which I said seemed too low, had an associated quality issue, which in realty I NO WAY insinuated. So please, don't even pretend to slither out of you twice written KNOCK statements.
    You made it perfectly clear before you used the word "knock", that you were totally fine with off-grid.
    And I don't think saving money, in and of itself in a Capitalistic society would be thought bad of.
    So ruling those two out, what was the "object of the knock"?
    A verb needs a noun. What was it?
    Perhaps your use of "knock" was a bad choice of words or that you are just too easily offended and thought your offering had to be pre-defended...

    And one would hope, at least on this site, that EVERYONE wishes him the best, and if he can save money in the process, fantastic.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 07-11-2022 11:43 AM
    I would refer readers (sic) to look at Battleborn LIFPO4 batteries (made in USA, they say), which have some built in electronics.  I'm not associated with the company in any way, but found them interesting because of their internal electronics, which have several protection features.  You'd have to look up whether they have built-in inverters.  I don't remember if UL listed.
      Also, batteries are not listed as just 5k, where the "k" by itself doesn't mean anything, but in energy storage capacity, one would give measurements in kWh (kiloWatt hours, where the W is capitalized because Watt is a person's last name).  Not criticizing, but just clarifying terminology.  The 100 Amp means, I assume, that that is the maximum discharge current.  Of course, it is not good to discharge at or near the maximum rate, but is a valuable parameter.  If the battery were 5kWh rating, then if it was (for example) a 48 Volt battery, it could theoretically last about ___ max hours discharging at 100 Amps.  48V x 100A = 4.8 kW discharge rate, so maybe last about an hour.

    ------------------------------
    Henry Stinson
    henrystinson@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 07-11-2022 12:17 PM
    The Atlas batteries are UL listed and also include a BMS. (Battery Management System). Most current LiFePo4 batteries include BMS - which has features such as over current disconnect, over charge disconnect, RS485 and/or CANBUS comms for inverter communication/monitoring, cell balancing, and visual display of charge/discharge current and SOC. Basically it's got everything it needs to protect itself, do accurate reporting and last a very very long time. This goes for almost ANY brand on the market at 5KWH or larger. Even some of the 1.2KWH batteries have BMS.   If your battery DOESN'T have a BMS, they can be purchased almost anywhere Like Alibaba, or Ebay. Some folks still like to build their own stuff, and all the parts are out there to make it easy and safe to build packs using the latest LiFePo4 technology which is NOT a fire/explosion hazard as the Lithium/Cobalt and other Lithium chemistries are!!

    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 06-21-2022 11:18 AM
    Joe - that's fabulous.

    The "killer" feature would be a txt alert when your batteries were full and system curtailing energy - or even better, a smart receptacle that always charges your car when your home batteries are full.


    Andrew Stone
    Commercial Solar Lending











  • 17.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Posted 06-21-2022 04:52 PM
    Turns out the Sol-Ark includes a wifi dongle and software app that you can download to your phone to see every single aspect of operation in REAL TIME. It's beautifully constructed and is just as "intuitive" as the front panel display on the inverter!!

    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 06-22-2022 12:54 PM
    Outback Power equipment has had real time remote monitoring for years.  Fyi.

    ------------------------------
    Mike Curran
    Retired from (dare I say it?) Fossil Plant Mgt.
    joacchim57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: SOL-ARK 1st install!

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 07-11-2022 12:27 PM
    As an update to Joe's references, I received a total of 3 emails from them so far. The first two as mentioned were, well, not what they should have been. Then the last one from out of the blue "sounded like, but was not", a whole new person and could have been interpreted as a "fresh start" contact almost. When I read it, I wondered if Joe had done some kind of "backend" contact regarding my communications, or maybe the guy woke up having a REALLY GOOD day.....lol... 
    Anyway, he stated he would check on the life under a float application.

    While I have been waiting around for actual shipment (9 months) I have been taking more notice of the V2G bi-directional market. With over 120KWH's of Li sitting in just 2 of my 3 EV's, I have been thinking that maybe I should scale down my "yet to come" 40KWH bank in favor of a smaller 10 or 15KWH combined with a 7-12KW V2G bi-directional charger. Even just my Bolt has a 66KWH LI battery in it with CCS port. That by itself has 50% more capacity than my "to be" new lead acid bank. It would really be a more sophisticated, bigger and resilient solution. But at the moment there seems not to be any REAL V2G bi-directional chargers out there. Just promised tech for 2023 which would be perhaps a bit late to the party at this point.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------