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Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

  • 1.  Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-15-2022 12:36 PM
    Thought this might be a good forum to spread the word to those most likely to be interested.

    There is wide-spread dogma that passive solar heating and passive cooling can only serve a fraction of the heating and cooling loads. Don't believe it! Some pioneers, such as Maria Telkes and Norm Saunders, knew better and designed homes in particular climates that needed no auxiliary energy for heating and cooling. The thing that was missing, though, was a formal method for achieving such performance in any climate. 

    The key is balancing enough insulation (low envelope loss) with just the right amounts of solar gains and passive cooling, along with enough thermal mass to bridge intervals of unavailability of the appropriate ambient energy source for the local climate (periods of cloudy weather during the winter so that solar heating is not possible, and warm nights during the summer so that ventilation cooling is not possible). (For the solar nerds, the mathematical model is described here: Sharp MK. Indoor comfort achieved exclusively from ambient sources across US climates. J Sol Energy Eng 143(6):061005, 2021. The model is really simple. It runs in Excel.)

    The first Ambient House is being built in Pagosa Springs, CO. It has remained comfortable for more than a year with no auxiliary energy use. It was on last year's National Solar Tour here: https://vimeo.com/581885086 In this rather cold climate (zone 6), it has at least 16" of insulation in the walls, 32" in the ceiling and 12" under the floor. The basement walls and the floors on two levels are concrete for thermal mass. The windows for solar gain are small by passive solar standards, just large enough to get enough heating during the winter, but not so large as to produce unmanageable overheating during the summer. Cooling is by nighttime ventilation. Some rudimentary data collection is underway, with more extensive instrumentation to be installed this summer.

    Given the large carbon emissions of most current buildings, it would be great to see more 100% ambient-energy-conditioned buildings constructed. Let me know if I can help you with a new home or a remodel.

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-16-2022 09:38 AM
    With all this talk about insulation values everyone seems to be missing one VERY important concept. Insulations doesn't STOP heat flow. It just SLOWS IT DOWN!!!! Do you have a 2nd floor that is always HOT in the afternoon? Even with 20 inches of insulation in the attic?? Of course you do. There is a product called RADIANT BARRIER FILM (glorified aluminum foil with some fabric to keep it from tearing) that can put a STOP to the "FLOW" of heat in/out of your house!! The stuff is dirt cheap and works WITH the insulation to finally stop the loss/gain of energy from your dwelling. You can buy it on ebay for chump change and just roll it out on top of your insulation, or staple it to the roof beams - either way, it STOPS THE BLACK BODY RADIATION FROM PENETRATING INTO THE INTERIOR HOUSE ENVELOPE and also works THE OTHER WAY - TO KEEP HEAT/COLD inside!!! Guys, this really IS "rocket science" ( they wrap satellites in gold foil a few thousandths of an inch thick to keep them from overheating from the suns rays in outer space!). It's CHEAPER than insulation and is an EASY "DIY" project. I'm surprised it's not a FEDERAL LAW for all new construction. Payback is about 3 months regardless of what time of year you install it!.

    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-17-2022 09:12 AM
    Never put a moisture barrier on top of your insulation!!!  Moist air escaping from the house will condense on that film and soak your insulation, eventually creating a mold farm.    A moisture barrier is not a bad thing in the right spot; on top of insulation is absolutely the worst spot for it.

    ------------------------------
    Bob Irving
    Builder/Architect
    RH Irving Homebuilders
    rhirving@tds.net
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-17-2022 10:31 AM
    The radiant barrier film is NOT a moisture barrier. It is perforated to allow moisture to move. After 10 years in my attic there are no signs of any kind of moisture buildup, mold, mildew or water staining. IT is an EXCELLENT product to reduce energy losses and has been on the market for over 25 years. It works. It is NOT a "moisture barrier".

    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-18-2022 09:20 AM
    OK, thanks!  I didn't know perforated radiant barriers existed; thanks for the correction.  I work in the northeast & don't generally use them.

    ------------------------------
    Bob Irving
    Builder/Architect
    RH Irving Homebuilders
    rhirving@tds.net
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 03-31-2022 10:14 AM
    You know I saw this post hanging out there for awhile. I just hadn't bothered to read it at all. No particular reason I suppose. As I have said in the past, I just have been at this too long and nothing really excites or grabs my attention, rarely. So I made the mistake of starting to read some of the responses, and I found myself sitting at one of those dinners (Which are really not bad food wise) with the IR bulbs, clear box full of fiberglass VS the AL foil and two digital thermometers. I am not going to go long on this. Just not in the mood. Bottom line, I wish people would stop obfuscating the realities behind radiant foil barriers vs conventional conduction based insulation. One is Lobster tail, the other is Filet mignon. They work in two different ways. They are NOT mutually exclusive, I.E. I use one therefore I don't need the other, etc.. You DO NOT forgo conventional for radiant. Both can be used together accomplishing different outcomes. NEITHER one is a magic Bullet. I will end just saying, STOP with the outer space comparisons!! They are invalid and misleading, unless of course you are in outer space.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-31-2022 10:46 AM

    Mr. Fitch,

    I got a good laugh from your response! I sure didn't mean  to "mislead" anyone. The space comparison is legit. The foil stops the radiant energy. The IMPORTANT thing is the point you make that it's NOT one or the other (insulation vs. foil) It's just that with the addition of the foil you get an overall MUCH better result. i.e. the IR lamp in the box display that is EVER PRESENT at all home shows. Everyone I've described this to (almost all DIY folks) have come back to me and told me about the remarkable difference that the foil made to their "afternoon heating" problem, especially during the summer...  peace...



    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 03-31-2022 02:44 PM
    "the IR lamp in the box display that is EVER PRESENT at all home shows. "
    Yes, but you don't get a free dinner there. Under certain circumstances sure. 
    It depends on the frequency of the radiation really. The higher the freq, the more effective.
    But yes in certain places like under heated slab coupled with foam, attics where temps are higher with greater differential, and so on.. sure. There is just so much misinformation out there with false claims, etc..
    I am going to go now and eat my steak...


    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Award Winner
    Posted 03-16-2022 11:38 AM
    Keith,

    You are right, but I must say , conventional high-value energy efficiency and
    renewable energy do fine.

    I mean I have R-38 insulation and double-pane, argon filled, low-e
    Coating windows on my home, with thermal barrier paint under
    My roof, solar water heating (with a. Pv-circ pump) and a direct-
    Exchange geothermal heat pump.

    So the efficiency cut 30% of my energy load, the SWH and GHP
    Take care of 40% of the load.

    PV batteries address the remains 30% - all with technologies
    We have commercially available.  I also do have Energy Star
    Appliances and a smart thermostat too which also helps.

    But not really a heavy lift and all economic - Best, Scott Sklar

    Scott Sklar 

    Adjunct Professor & Sustainable Energy Director

    Environment & Energy Management Institute (EEMI)

           and Director, GWU Solar Institute

    The George Washington University (GWU)

    https://eemi.seas.gwu.edu/   sklar@gwu.edu

    Personal email: solarsklar@aol.com Ph 703-522-3049






  • 10.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-16-2022 12:38 PM
    Scott,
      You make good points. I won't criticize anyone who has found a way to reach 100%. There is more than one way to skin that cat. Kudos and congratulations on what you have done with your home.

     As you mention, it is possible with current technology. Ambient House technology is now available also. Some beneficial features are that PV area is minimized, because it doesn't have to serve any of the space conditioning load, and indoor temperature remains comfortable even during power outages. Overheating is addressed at the design stage, rather than by air conditioning after the fact.

    Again, good on you for eliminating fossil fuel combustion for your home energy needs. Wish all buildings worked so well.

    Best,
    Keith

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-18-2022 03:48 PM
    The first passive what!?!
    A Hilarious example of "if it didn't happen in the US, it didn't happen."
    I am sure plenty who read this forum are chuckling to themselves and mouthing 'PassivHous' as they read this.



    Vic Aguilar
    Sustainable Energy Consultant
    NABCEP COK#081309
    (626)633-6682
    Please consider your environmental responsibility. Before printing this e-mail message, ask yourself whether you really need a hard copy.






  • 12.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-18-2022 08:12 PM
    Vic,
       Not sure if you are implying that Ambient House is the same as Passive House. It is not. I greatly admire what the Passive House standards have done for home construction, but there are nonetheless some improvements that can be made. Do you know that 10% of annual hours can be above 25C indoors and the home can still be Passive House certified? Over a month of 90's or even 100's indoors and its still OK??? Passive House does a great job of addressing thermal losses, but not so for passive heating and cooling, nor bridging inclement weather with thermal mass. As I mentioned to Steve, Ambient House combines the best features of Passive House and passive solar. If Passive House can individually reduce loads by 70-90%, and passive solar can individually serve 70-90% of more typical loads, doesn't it make sense that combining the two would be even better?

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-21-2022 02:43 PM
    Keith:
    The International Solar Cat Society takes great offense at the very notion that "skinning a cat" has any bearing whatsoever with attaining 100% energy self sufficiency!  Such a thing is far too much trouble. Stick with what's easy. Conserve.
    Jim Augustyn

    ------------------------------
    James Augustyn
    Berkeley CA
    jim@solarcat.com
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-21-2022 07:32 PM
    Jim,
       Holy crap, are you still ALIVE?! ;^) I remember when your first book came out!

    Cheers,
    Keith

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-21-2022 10:46 PM
    Keith:
    Yeah. It has something to do with that "9 lives" thing. And since cats live longer, and longer times 9 is, well , 9 times longer, then . . . umm, actually not sure about what then . . . Need to stick around to find out.
    Jim

    ------------------------------
    James Augustyn
    Berkeley CA
    jim@solarcat.com
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-18-2022 12:11 PM
    Hello Keith,
    Just want to say thanks for spreading the virtues of passive solar home designs.
    I have been designing and building passive solar homes for over 30 years and been living in a passive solar home for the past 25 years.
     One of the benefits of these designs is that the occupants are synchronized with the seasonal changes of our natural world.
    If the home is oriented & designed correctly it is self regulating, warm and sunny interior spaces in the winter, cool shaded spaces in the summer.
    This greatly reduces the heating and cooling loads but does not really cover all heating and cooling conditions.
    My experience has not been to design homes that achieve 100% of the heating and cooling needs with the passive solar features.
    In my climate it is most cost effective and more comfortable to figure that 75-80% of heating and cooling needs come from the passive solar design.
    We can have a week long winter storm front move through my area with clouds and cold temperatures greatly reducing the comfort of the home.
    I have found that a simple backup heating system can supplement at these times keeping occupants very comfortable.
    The same goes for the summer cooling season, a high pressure can setup in June or July and not allow for adequate cooling with night flushing alone.
    A simply Mini-split system carries the home during these weather events.
    The all electric heat pumps can be run off of a PV system with a grid tie or battery backup.
    My experience has shown that this is the most comfortable and cost effective design.
    Wishing you all the best,
    Steve Kawell

    ------------------------------
    Steve Kawell
    Owner
    Durango Solar Homes
    Durango CO
    stevekawell@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-18-2022 12:49 PM
    Steve Kawell has it exactly right. I live off-grid, with a well insulated, tight home. I have 4 mini splits, and 90% of the time just ONE of them in the main room is all we need. Mini splits can be purchased withe SEER ratings of 27 and HIGHER. Higher seer means better energy conversion efficiency. They can operate in both cooling AND heating mode. Heating is less efficient, but still better than most other options, especially if you are solar -off-grid.  During the summer, I run 3 of them all day, and just one (in the master BR) overnight. The newer units have variable speed compressors, so during the night, when the setpoint temp has been reached, the unit throttles back and uses much less power than during the day. Higher seer ratings cost more, but the payback is rather fast, and the extra investment is WELL worth it!!

    ------------------------------
    Joe Utasi
    PV Solar Consultant
    Cinci Home Solar, Keowee Home Solar, DIY Solar Helper
    joe@cincihomesolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Award Winner
    Posted 03-18-2022 01:18 PM
    Joe is exacty right.
    Ductless heating is the way to go and the higher the building insulation, the better.
    MY office has R-45+ insulation with a minisplit
    MY house has R-38 insulation with a direct-exchange geothermal heat pump.
    Both powered by olsar and works like a charm - even in 15 degree F weather we
         had here this winter .... Right on, Joe !! - Scott Sklar

    ------------------------------
    Scott Sklar
    President & Adj Professor
    The Stella Group, Ltd, GWU EEMI
    Arlington, VA
    solarsklar@aol.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-18-2022 07:46 PM
    Steve,
       I am an old passive solar guy as well. Ambient House is a refinement of passive solar, in combination with Passive House (or super insulated houses if you want to go back to the 1980's). With the best features of passive solar and Passive House, along with some new features (principally, active control of passive gains and losses), it is possible to serve the entire heating and cooling load. No mini-split needed. We installed a post-heater downstream of the ERV, just in case, but it is not wired up yet and hasn't been needed.

      Compared to classic passive solar homes, the main differences are more insulation and smaller solar aperture. Thermal mass is in the same ball park. If you would be interested, I could run the model on an example home to see what it would take to serve the rest of the load compared to what you typically build. If you get over to Pagosa, let me know. You are welcome to come see our house.

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Award Winner
    Posted 03-21-2022 11:42 AM

    Kieth, nice to meet you.  I enjoyed your post. I support and follow your direction. I do use less insulation leaving some for others and subsidise with wood from beetle kill or Electric from our PV. I do not try to cover the extremes.  Passive solar works so well. Just balance energy in with energy out. Using mass to flatten the curve. I live in Santa Fe and get to Pagosa to visit friends and for Medical needs. I would be  pleased to find and meet you sometime and share. I have a few homes in Pagosa and we could have a fun and productive visit. Some goes for Santa Fe. 

    Mark Chalom



    ------------------------------
    Mark Chalom
    Builder/Architect
    Solar Design & Analysis
    Santa Fe NM
    chalomm@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-21-2022 12:28 PM
    Mark,
       Thanks for your message. You summed it up well - balancing gains and losses, and smoothing with thermal mass. We are indeed in a good area for passive solar. Clouds don't typically last for more than a few days, so not much bridging needed.

      Sounds like more insulation might be the last piece of the puzzle to get to 100% in your homes. I would be happy to run the model with Santa Fe data, so you would know what it would take. You may have eventually have an interested client.

      We used 16" Larsen trusses on the outside of a stud wall to create space for insulation, due to high cost of concrete (for double foundation to support double stud walls) in Pagosa. If I were to do it again, I would look into a system with foundation below frost line only under the outer wall, since the soil under the inner wall would never freeze. An all-shallow foundation would also be an option if there is no side load (not an option for our walk-out basement).

      Lets get together sometime! Consider yourself invited here, and I would love to visit Santa Fe when the COVID thing is over. I plan to be in Albuquerque for the ASES meeting and will present on Ambient House there.

    Best,
    Keith

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Award Winner
    Posted 03-22-2022 12:08 PM
    Kieth, thanks, I'll  respond as an architect with clients. My clients come to me for my knowledge of Climatic Design. We have the knowhow and materials to achieve 100% most anywhere.  A PS house is a kinetic machine. An efficient engineering approach. We can do it for a cost. but Clients want much more. Good open design, liveability, nice detail, light, view, beauty and more Sq. ft. then they can afford. Nice energy efficient appliances but style and groovy options count more then the lowest energy cost. If we did design a 100%er, we would put in small back up anyway. Today, Spring Equinox, watching the snow fall through the windows, a glass door wood stove is OK and nice.   As designed, our gain is cut way back, its spring! As architects, we need to balance all criteria and client goals and budget to get closer to 100%. That is our challenge  to achieve. Its fun. 
    I have been designing and building PS homes for 45 years now. It has come a long way. Starting with David Wrights Sunscoop house where without any design tools, it was a large back adobe wall, and as much south glass as possible. The shotgun approach. Pre personal computers, post slide rule.  Luckily, it had movable insulating shades.Over the years, we have learned to calculate and add to our real world experience.  You nailed it. Get the best of all approaches. The direction has been towards good design, balanced mass, better insulation,  dialled in glass to to counter the loss, and movable sun control. We need to understanding and design for our varied seasons, better scale, use and appreciation of site, local and natural materials to satisfy these needs.  The glass is so important for view, light, ventilation, energy gain, plant growth and contact with our environment. All so important for life and health.
    In our climate, south glass is a net gain in winter months.  Use it. It can be controlled in summer. "Its the CATS MEOW" An insulating wall only resists heat flow. We are getting closer and closer in all directions.  As architects, we need to supply all needs as best we can all from the same pot of gold.  100% solar does not matter if you did not include the dishwasher. As energy prices continue to rise, so does "R's", codes, standards, costs and rational for.  The climate has not changed that much. Its just economics.
    Im sorry I can't  find the 35 mm slide of my college girlfriend, 1970 +/- standing in-front of a gas station sign. 17 cents a gal. Wow even my I pad has a dollar sign but not a cent sign. Thanks for being part of the evolution. We have come a long way. Mark Chalom, Architect


    ------------------------------
    Mark Chalom
    Builder/Architect
    Solar Design & Analysis
    Santa Fe NM
    chalomm@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-22-2022 02:44 PM
    It's great to see some of the folks joining this discussion.
    Mark Chalom is one of my passive solar heroes, I am a long time student of Mark's.
    He has an abundance of experience and knowledge!

    I use the term passive solar because solar is the primary design criteria.
    Yes, insulation & indoor air quality play a huge part of a quality design program but solar is front and center for a passive solar design.
    Increasing insulation levels has been an inevitable evolution of the classic passive solar design as it is with a Passive or Ambient House.
    I do believe there is a point of diminishing returns on levels of insulation, each designers needs to make that determination according to their specific goals and climate.
    You mentioned reducing the area of south facing windows.
    I am a big fan of large dramatic south facing glass (within reason).
    Some of the designs I have built, fine-tune the incoming direct solar radiation by utilizing exterior architectural shading elements.
    A well designed south roof projection can limit large south facing window's direct solar gain and can still supply an interior space with appropriate seasonal solar gain, fantastic natural light & inspiring views of gardens & western landscapes. 
    A Sketchup solar model can give a designer an accurate view of shading to achieve desired effects.
    A properly designed and oriented passive solar home is generally self regulating.
    That said, I am a huge proponent of operable interior window treatments to give precise control of incoming light intensity, insulate against night time winter heat loss and provide occupant privacy
    A well designed passive solar structure is a dramatic, dynamic living space synchronized with the seasonal solar changes. 
    I agree increasing the building envelope's insulation and reducing window area will get you closer to the 100% heating and cooling needs but at what cost.....definitely additional material costs and potentially a less dramatic living space.

    I love the idea that there is a wide palette of strategies to chose from in creating a highperforming home design.
    Keep up the great work.
    Stay curious....

    Steve Kawell

    ------------------------------
    Steve Kawell
    Owner
    Durango Solar Homes
    Durango CO
    stevekawell@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-22-2022 06:53 PM
    A wonderful thread for this old solar engineer who was a research assistant graduate student circa 1980 working on the passive design research project at Trinity University, San Antonio, TX.  The primary question we were answering was how big a difference does a high humidity climate make to the comfort level in the living quarters of a passively cooled home? Turns out it is a big deal... I am currently head over heels in love with my new super efficient home in central Texas with many of the features described here plus something I didn't see mentioned: north facing clerestory windows that eliminate the need to turn on any lights during the day.  And on those humid 100 degF days, that PV powered high efficiency heat pump sure feels good while I do the dishes looking out at the view of the lake.
    Peace,
    Jim Mosley
    jmosley77@gmail.com

    ------------------------------
    Jim Mosley
    Senior Software Developer
    EarthSoft
    jmosley77@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 03-23-2022 04:22 AM
    Thought I would comment on our experience.  In 1993 we began building an "Earthship" (a passive solar concept popularized by the architect Michael Reynolds) in southeastern Ohio.  It combines passive solar (about 70 feet of glass wall to the south) and thermal mass (the walls are made of rammed earth within tires and the north side buried in earth.  It also has about 2 feet of insulation in the ceiling. 

    It also incorporates other features such as rainwater harvesting, composting toilets and most of the structure is built from reclaimed materials. 

    We have lived in the home for about 20 years (love it by the way) - and find that while you might be able to survive without a secondary heat source in this climate (the house never falls below about 50 degrees), it would not be overly comfortable.  On days when the sun shines, there is no problem.  The home will reach about 70 degrees regardless of the outside temperature.   But in the winter we get many days without strong sun, often for many days in a row. 

    So we supplement our heat with a small wood stove.  This raises the temperature to a comfortable level (throughout the entire home - which is about 2200 sq ft).  We tend to use the wood stove every day in the winter, even when not entirely necessary - as it is pleasant.

    ------------------------------
    Jay Warmke
    Owner
    Blue Rock Station LLC
    jay@bluerockstation.com
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-30-2022 02:17 PM
    Wow, am just now getting up to speed on this post which is very exciting! Thanks, Keith for starting it, and then Scott, Steve, and Mark (as well as the others) for adding their comments. When I joined the Tech Div of Solar Building (as Vice-Chair of the division) of ASES a couple of years ago, I did so at the recommendation of Scott who I asked, why is passive solar not being mentioned so much anymore?  He told me I needed to volunteer with ASES and try to encourage changes. I was glad that we were able to get building-specific sessions for SOLAR 2022 in NM this year, but we need the energy of all of you to help spread the word and examples of passive solar examples.  I hope to meet many of you at SOLAR 2022 there to continue these discussions. The session that Mark will be moderating a session on residential solar (as well as presenting in it) so I am especially excited about it. And Mazria will be speaking at the conference.
    Being on the steering committee for the National Solar Tour, I would also like to encourage you all to submit and encourage your customers to be a part of the tour in October. Surely you will do an update on your Ambient House Keith! Steve, I bet you have many homes in SW Colorado.
    Keep up the passive solar energy!
    Debbie

    ------------------------------
    Debra Coleman
    Architect
    Sun Plans
    debra28@sunplans.com
    https://www.sunplans.com
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-30-2022 03:33 PM
    Hi Debra,
    Looks like you have a great lineup for the ASES conference in Albuquerque!

    A big reason more architects and designers are not utilizing passive solar strategies in their design program is the lack of understanding of how a building will be effected.
    The suns daily and seasonal effects on a design are well known and documented.
    They can be used wisely and create a very positive influence on the living spaces or if these solar principals are ignored the sun's radiation can become a negative.
    Buildings are exposed to the the suns energy even if a structure is designed without including these solar principles.
    Might as well use these solar strategies correctly to create an asset for the occupants and not haphazardly turn the solar exposure into a liability.
    If more architects and designers understood and utilized good passive solar design strategies we would have building synchronized with our natural world, lowering heating & cooling loads, while creating dynamic living spaces.
     
    The national solar tour is a wonderful way for people to experience what's possible, I have participated in the tour with four different homes over the years.

    Stay Well,
    Steve

    ------------------------------
    Steve Kawell
    Owner
    Durango Solar Homes
    Durango CO
    stevekawell@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 03-31-2022 08:11 PM
    The fact that the sun/wind has an effect on a building no matter what seems grossly under appreciated.  You'd think that designers would at least not do anything that is detrimental to a building's energy performance,  but they seem to do it far too often.   To further complicate matters most urban building lots are either not oriented well or have significant shading issues.

    My limited personal experience is that I could get maybe 1/4 of my annual heating load passively even in very gloomy Seattle, and that is with essentially no architectural compromises on aesthetics--its "sun tempered"  but unless you know what to look for, you'd never know its a passive building.  In another house in much sunnier California, I get 70-95% of my heat load passively, the variation being due to how rainy the winter is.  That house only has a small wood stove as backup.  Again, you can't really tell from the exterior that its a passive building.  I realize that many of us rather like the look of full passive building like Jay's earthship, but I haven't found the general public to be as open minded about it. Passive design is easier to sell if it looks like the customer's idea of a "house".

    The other issue I've run into is that the temperature tends to vary in a passive building more than it would in a standard thermostat controlled building.  I think this is awesome because it keeps me in tune with what's going on outside and I don't usually see more than a 6degree (F) temperature swing.  Both houses are fairly well insulted so often the temperature swing is less.  But  many Americans seem to not like being connected with nature--they really like the knob they can turn. I'm always putting on or taking off extra shirts or a pile jacket.

    The question of how to win hearts and minds is challenging.   Builders claim the customer doesn't demand green, and the customers either don't know to ask or don't prioritize it.  I think this is changing, but I don't know how much.  Most of the interactions I have tend to be preaching to the choir, but even among climate aware people I know, there is somehow a reluctance to pay for passive features.  Back when I was the solar tour (many years ago), everyone was interested in my 3kw PV system, but not my 9" thick walls or south facing glass.  Yet the impact of the walls and windows is far greater.  I don't know what it takes to get people excited about stuff like this.  Maybe now that it looks like energy prices might go sky high, people will wake up.  I suspect the heat pump/PV setup Scott suggests is an easier sell, but a good designer ought to be able to sneak in some passive features anyhow--at least as long as the client isn't demanding a giant west facing wall of glass.  I see these things going up in Seattle fairly frequently... and no surprise, the blinds are always closed!

    I'd love to know if the survivablity aspect would be a bigger motivation--the passive building really stands out when the grid goes down.

    ------------------------------
    Bob Scheulen
    bobs@sensiblehouse.org
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 04-02-2022 12:42 PM
    The winning hearts and minds thing is indeed challenging. I would be interested in opinions on the Passive House model. Passive House includes software, training and certification of designers and builders, and has a required standard of performance for the building, for which you get a nice plaque to display. Fees for building reviews and for certification of materials and components keep the organization going. They have certified over 330,000 units over 30 years, so the model is working, though perhaps not as fast as necessary to make a big dent in world carbon emissions. What if a similar Ambient House program were to start up? Would you design your homes to the new standard and submit for certification? Are you doing Passive House already? If so, what would it take for you to switch to Ambient House? Other ideas for solving the hearts and minds problem?

    Thanks,
    Keith

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-02-2022 01:12 PM
    Over the past thirteen years since getting my Passive House certification, I’ve built around twenty new homes and remodeled several in northern New England. I’ve never built a Passive House, but like hundreds of other builders around the country, I’ve used the PH methods to build what in Maine they call a “Pretty Good House” and what I’ve called Net Zero Ready homes. With solar panels these homes cost $300-$500 annually for all their utilities including heat, AC and hot water, are incredibly comfortable, and have zero emissions. Passive House works, and works well. Passive Solar helps a great deal with heating loads. These same techniques work in remodeling older homes. Passive House is the building code in parts of Europe and is heading that way in the US. Curiously, in my first day of my Passive House course, they talked about LEEDS and said, of you want a plaque on the wall, build LEED; if you want a great house, build a Passive House, so it seems weird to hear that same comment about PH.

    I’m unclear what an “Ambient” house is, but hopefully it builds on the basics of Passive House. PH is basically a description of the physics of a building and how to work with the physics. Whether it’s a certified PH or an (uncertified) NZR or a PGH, they are all excellent buildings with very low heating loads, easily achievable “net zero” status, good ventilation and exceedingly high comfort levels.
    Bob Irving




  • 31.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-03-2022 08:42 AM
    In the northwest, there are fans of both the PH model and the PH derived "pretty good house".  From what I've heard the challenge of PH certification is meeting the .6ACH50 air leakage requirement.  Also, although the PH software accounts for solar gain, I don't think it models mass and so doesn't tend to lean one in traditional passive solar direction of glass+mass.

    Personally I'm a huge fan of the "pretty good house" idea--however you get to low energy is fine with me.

    But the majority of homes are built by production builders who seem to have no interest in these things, and I suspect the only thing that will change their minds is if the customers demand it.  Probably this means getting real estate agents  behind it. If only "location" was about solar access as much as schools/stores/etc!  The surveys seem to indicate there is customer interest, but the builders and real estate agents are still selling beds+baths+location.

    On the customer side, it seems that PV is actually the pathway to passive building (although at that point it's a bit late!).  Once people get hooked on generating their own power, the barrier to net-zero is that they either run out of budget or run out of roof, and that seems to be where the conversation about demand reduction begins.

    Unfortunately it seems like one of the root problems is that American culture is still laced with the idea that there aren't limits, or rather that the only limit is money.  Sometimes I think the biggest hit to energy use is just building size and the other aspect that many of the preferred locations mean that everything you do involves driving (in an SUV, of course).  It's not clear there is anything one can do about that--it's basically impossible to sway someone who is coming from a place of "I want".

    ------------------------------
    Bob Scheulen
    bobs@sensiblehouse.org
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-03-2022 09:17 AM
    Production builders will go where the demand is. We need to “sell” to buyers who will demand them. I’ve built at least two homes for fairly right wing clients who don’t believe in Climate Change and have no interest in Solar Panels, but they are interested in having lower costs. Eventually they’ll realize that solar panels will lower their costs. You have to meet buyers where they are. There are production builders who are now building every house NZ ready. It is coming.

    It’s not about the air change rate!

    Passive House Certification requires specific building products for windows, ventilation EQUIPTMENT etc., all of which raise the cost. Certification will cost several thousand $$ by itself. The approved HRV will double the cost of what I’m doing, and what I’m doing works. Many of my builds are below .6ach50. It’s not hard to achieve if you understand how to get there. Every house except two Modular’s I tried were below 1Ach50; the mods were 1.5. One doesn’t need to drive a Mercedes to have an exceptionally good car.
    Bob Irving

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 33.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 04-04-2022 08:22 AM
    This discussion of how to "sell" zero emissions homes is so important. Looking forward to more opinions.

    Just wanted to offer a comment on infiltration. At one time, I thought the Passive House standard of 0.6ACH might be unreasonable. One can meet the 10 W/m^2 standard with greater infiltration. However, as other envelope losses are decreased, infiltration becomes a larger fraction of the overall loss if it is not addressed. The PH focus on ACH has forced a reevaluation of sealing techniques. It is not something that can be accomplished by a few small tweaks to traditional methods. It takes a new level of attention to detail. As Bob says, you can get there if you know what you are doing. This development of new techniques, I think, has been a good thing.

    The lowest ACH I have seen is this one (0.05ACH): https://zeroenergyproject.org/2014/08/10/the-worlds-most-air-tight-home-0-05-ach50-pascals/ The sealing method is incredibly low-tech (just polyethylene), though the thick layers of cellulose probably help, too. If it is possible to go over ten times lower, then 0.6ACH doesn't look so difficult.

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-05-2022 12:24 PM
    I have to say that I am not a big fan of these super low ach numbers.
    Anything under 1.0 ach has shown to be a very cost effective goal.
    The Passive House is a good but rather restrictive system to construct a super energy efficient dwelling.
    Seems to me that if a building's energy design strategy covers many aspects....a full spectrum energy plan, the end result will be a dynamic, super energy efficient living space.
    Here is a quick list of what I like to see, no super specific requirements, just cover all the bases. 
    Appropriate passive solar features
    Very high levels of insulation
    Less than 1.0 ach
    Super efficient HVAC system
    ERV or HRV
    Energy Star appliances
    LED lighting.
    Water saving features

    There are many ways to design and build a great high performing home in 2022.

    ------------------------------
    Steve Kawell
    Owner
    Durango Solar Homes
    Durango CO
    stevekawell@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 04-05-2022 01:48 PM
    I would just add PV of 5KW to 10KW to that... Your list is good. Going over board on particular design specs has no real practical benefit, when it comes to an average designed residence.  It becomes more of just an exercise of playing in the weeds. It is better to be on board with a design than to go over board.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-05-2022 02:03 PM
    Yes, Absolutely......every building should be able to generate electricity from a PV array!

    ------------------------------
    Steve Kawell
    Owner
    Durango Solar Homes
    Durango CO
    stevekawell@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 04-05-2022 11:12 AM
    "I've built at least two homes for fairly right wing clients who don't believe in Climate Change and have no interest in Solar Panels, but they are interested in having lower costs" Yes, very true. I have a RED party head guy for his business put in 75KW a while back. He flat out said he didn't care about any "environmental" reason and did it to deprive the Gov of some of his tax dollars. That simple.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 38.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 04-01-2022 12:23 PM
    Many residential buildings are not designed by architects. For those that are, though, it would be helpful if architecture programs taught at least enough heat transfer and passive solar principles so that students knew what is possible. Architectural engineering programs often focus on structural calculations, but thermo and heat transfer are what is needed to design-in energy sustainability.

    In my last solar energy class (for mechanical engineers), one assignment was to design an Ambient House and verify performance with a building simulation package. All students were able to meet the specified comfort temperature range (65-75F) for the entire year, and most used BEOpt. The range of designs was impressive. Some used lots of solar gain, but others less. Lots of insulation was more common. One student from India used concrete walls throughout the house, because that is a common construction there. The very large thermal mass produced slow temperature swings, as one might expect. This exercise showed that one is not constrained to a particular strategy to achieve 100% ambient energy heating and cooling.

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 39.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 03-31-2022 09:12 PM
    Debra,
        Things have certainly changed. ASES used to have a separate annual National Passive Solar Conference. Now we just have a track in the general conference called "It's not just PV", and the solar tour submission form asks how many kW your system is! ;^) The good news is that there are still a number of folks who have been locally practicing and refining passive solar, in spite of a lack of emphasis at the national level. Maybe together we can develop some momentum!

    Best,
    Keith

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 40.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 04-07-2022 01:04 PM
    Keith,

    We were successful in getting Passive Solar (i think I will start capitalizing it as does Passive House) added to the checkbox on the National Solar Tour last year, but yes, the input form does still ask for the size of your PV system.  We have also been asking the Zero Energy Project to add Passive Solar as one of the fuel types for the home's heating system. Last I checked, it had still not been added so if you know of anyone responsible for that part of the form, please reach out.

    I have been enjoying your comments (and the others posting here) and looking forward to meeting you and hearing your presentation at SOLAR 22 in Track 2 for Building Innovations. And Mark Chalom's too in that track. Orlo Stitt, author of Wholistically Green who has been a long-time solar builder/designer is also presenting in that tract, as is Clement Gaillard from Paris. (I am going to post all the presenters in the Building Innovation tracks in the Solar Buildings Online Forum. I hope you all are members of that technical division. When you renew your ASES membership, you can now sign up for as many technical divisions as you would like and not just two as was the case previously.)

    Of the others that have been posting in regards to Keith's initial posting, I hope to see you at SOLAR 2022 also. The discount for early sign-up was extended and there are big discounts if you volunteer and even some JEDI scholarships.
    Debbie Coleman, ASES Vice-Chair Solar Buildings Tech Div & National Solar Tour steering committee

    ------------------------------
    Debra Coleman
    Architect
    Sun Plans
    debra28@sunplans.com
    https://www.sunplans.com
    ------------------------------



  • 41.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 04-08-2022 09:20 AM
    Edited by william fitch 04-08-2022 09:43 AM
    This "post" got allot of traffic. To me regarding a structure, you have natural gain, natural loss, production and imported energy. That's it. Simple.
    Passive Solar, Super Insulated, Ambient House, Active Solar, Hot Air Solar, Liquid Solar, Solar PV, Small Wind, Small scale Hydro, Passivhaus Certification, LEED certification, Green-e® certified, REC, SREC, Wind REC, MPGe, EV, ICE, BTU's, KWH, HDD, CDD, etc...... I mean why would any normal human out in the world of consumerism have any problem at all understanding the energy aspects of housing or transportation? Its all so straight forward and simple...right..??.. Its like buying a toaster for you kitchen. Bread or bagel. (Regular or wide mouth).

    Aside from me having some acronym fun above, I guess my point regarding adoption rate is that K.I.S.S. is preferred. Just build the dam house already the way it should be built given our world circumstances, hand the contract to them and ask, "The red pen or the blue pen". Anything else, by the numbers, is like trying to dig yourself out of a hole.
    .....Bill
    EDIT: I apologize. I forgot SAHP, Geo-Thermal, Geo-Exchange, Horizontal and vertical...

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 42.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-08-2022 10:18 AM
    I totally agree with KISS.  As far as I can tell, the two main issues that stop people from using passive solar are attachment to a particular architectural style and a broad resistance to change--the latter probably being the bigger factor, but I'm not really sure. Obviously those who find value in reducing their energy use have no problem building such houses. I often think that if it wasn't for the energy code aspect of the building code, lots of builders would still be building to 1970 energy standards.  As has been mentioned, sometimes people only want to be free from the utility, but I suspect that historically environmental reasons have been a larger driver. For everyone else, there just doesn't seem to be high motivation.

    ------------------------------
    Bob Scheulen
    bobs@sensiblehouse.org
    ------------------------------



  • 43.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 04-08-2022 10:32 AM
    Yep. At the end of the day, its all about profit. Older code cheaper. To draw a comparison, look at war. (Don't freak out). It is the ultimate waste of utility, life, energy and resources. Yet we do it on a constant basis. Why? Profit. It is actually that simple. Every other connection flows out from that.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 44.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-09-2022 07:13 AM
    You're probably right... although there must be more to it, since there are people who do it purely for financial reason--as we all know, there are places where PV is the least cost power, and it hard for me to imagine that passive techniques aren't the lowest cost everywhere.. beyond code anyhow, although there  is probably a limit on how insulation pays back in any reasonable time frame (say10-20 years), but admittedly the up front cost is higher, although the upfront construction cost to orient the house right, put windows the south with some reasonable overhang--its zero.  Yet I virtually don't see it happen.  Makes me think the customer isn't asking for it, which is too bad, because the upfront cost of insulation and air sealing is far less than the retrofit cost.  The thing that really get me is that once a house is oriented wrong (and it seems to me most of them are), its a lost opportunity forever because the lot is oriented wrong (or rather its oriented seemingly random--probably more due to the easiest way to subdivide than anything).

    ------------------------------
    Bob Scheulen
    bobs@sensiblehouse.org
    ------------------------------



  • 45.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-11-2022 10:18 AM


    ------------------------------
    Michael Mayhew
    President, Sr. Energy Engineer
    Heliotropic Technologies
    coolsolarguy@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------



  • 46.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 04-11-2022 10:38 AM
    COOL!! I bet there are allot of nooks and crannies...

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 47.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Posted 04-11-2022 10:26 AM
      |   view attached
    My house on the coast of Maine is primarily heated from passive solar and the attached greenhouse has a 1000 gallon thermal storage pool in it, which has worked great for the last 40 years.  The 4+kW PV systems get me very close to net zero electric, and provides the juice for my mini split heat pump.  My hot water is primarily heated with a couple of old Heliodyne flat plate collectors.  I run my energy engineering business out of here, as well as have a summer rental apartment, which cost me $560 of electricity last year, at about 20 cents/kWh.  I do burn a bit of wood, 1-2 cords,  but passive solar is my main source of heat for this close to 3,000 sf 'tree fort.' with a nice ocean view.

    ------------------------------
    Michael Mayhew
    President, Sr. Energy Engineer
    Heliotropic Technologies
    coolsolarguy@yahoo.com
    ------------------------------



  • 48.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 04-09-2022 08:14 AM
    Debra,
       Thanks so much for adding the Passive Solar checkbox! Little things can add up to a lot. It is also good to see that Passive Solar (by Ken Haggard and David Bainbridge) now has a page on the ASES website. It all makes a difference!

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 49.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 04-09-2022 08:42 AM
    Just wanted to make a point about insulation: There is a bump in the otherwise more or less smooth curve of diminishing returns where the insulation (along with solar gains, thermal mass, etc.) is sufficient to avoid all auxiliary heating and cooling. Deleting the furnace and air conditioner can buy a considerable amount of insulation. Some may still prefer a backup, but if the envelope losses are low enough, then this can be done with a cheap portable electric heater, or even turning on some lights or baking some cookies in the oven. (Our winter design load is only about 1 kW.)

    Also, with the looming climate crisis, evaluating economics as the primary criterion is short sighted, but that is a different issue!

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------



  • 50.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 04-09-2022 02:12 PM
    Yes. That's the benefit of the true super insulated house. The occupancy on a day to day basis takes care of heating. Cooling a different matter. PV + split AC.

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    fcfcfc@ptd.net
    ------------------------------



  • 51.  RE: Ambient House: Heating and cooling with 100% ambient energy

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 04-09-2022 05:54 PM
    Right, auxiliary cooling is not so simple. You can't say, open the refrigerator, and cool the house!

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    keith.sharp@louisville.edu
    ------------------------------