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Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

  • 1.  Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 11-26-2022 11:40 AM
    With the heating season in full swing, we are becoming familiar with the rhythms of Ambient House on the heating side of things. October ended with a week or more of mostly cloudy weather, but just enough sun to keep the minimum temperature up to 68F. While active solar panels probably would not have warmed enough for the controller to turn on very often, passive solar windows benefit from even diffuse radiation. We added socks to our wardrobe. The sweaters are in reserve for when it gets colder. Early November saw temperatures drop into the single digits at night with daytime highs in the 40's. Still, with good sun, Ambient House warmed up slowly, with daily low and high temperatures beginning at 68-70 and reaching 70-72 the day before Thanksgiving.
         I continue to be amazed at the small temperature swings. We do not have an extraordinary amount to thermal mass, but the limited solar gains reduce overheating and the low envelope losses keep the nighttime decline in temperature small.
         On Thanksgiving, with the oven on for a good part of the day, we reached 76. The house continues to feel the effects of that extra shot of energy. With nighttime temperatures a little higher (in the teens), minimum indoor temperature was 73 this Sat morning.
         There is rewarding feeling of self-reliance in living in a passive solar house. It goes beyond saving energy and avoiding climate change. One notices sun and clouds, winds and temperature, and how the house responds. It is a connection between nature and you, mediated by an object that you built,  that boosts the spirit. I have been thinking more about this aspect of passive solar living since Mark Chalom's presentation at the ASES conference. He credited his sunspace with helping him get through COVID isolation. I can believe it. Thanks, Mark.

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    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 11-26-2022 12:27 PM
    You hit singles in KY!?!? I am surprised. I live in PA and we have not gotten that cold yet. Some high teens, low 20's, but that's it...
    Location, location and location I guess....

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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 11-26-2022 03:38 PM
    No, I am retired from University of Louisville. The house is in Pagosa Springs, CO (8323 heating degree days).

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 11-26-2022 09:34 PM
    8323 will do it....

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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Posted 11-28-2022 09:26 PM
    I've had a similar experience in Coastal CA--although it's a much milder climate.  in the cooler months, the low temp is almost never less than 66 and the high is rarely above 74.  Current night temps are high 30s to low 40s, daytime high is high 50s to high 60s.  I'm in just a t-shirt now (8pm), but will need a light jacket by morning (only because I hate cold).  In retrospect, I kinda wish I had put in a bit less overhang and relied on movable shades for the Aug-Oct time period (when it's often very hot), but the only downside is that the house is on the cool side from Mar-June, particularly on foggy days.

    I also like that with passive solar I'm more connected with nature, but I find visitors sometimes find it challenging--they want to let the afternoon heat out.

    ------------------------------
    Bob Scheulen
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  • 6.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-16-2022 07:47 PM
    Edited by william fitch 12-16-2022 07:58 PM
    Are you pure passive, or do you have ANY active solar, SDHW, PV, etc..
    I would ask the same question to some of the passive posters below, pure or mixed?

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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Posted 12-17-2022 07:14 AM
    I have PV and battery backup...enough to be net zero most of the time.  Some day I'll build another shed and put on a couple more panels and then I'll be net zero in the winter also.  The house is all electric, and the only heat backup is the wood stove.  I get away with that because I'm in a rural location and there are always plenty of downed branches/trees.  Admittedly if I did it again, I might go with more PV and a heat pump as back up heat since it would also do cooling.

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    Bob Scheulen
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-16-2022 01:36 PM
    Along with the good, I want to report the not-so-good! December started with warmer nighttime temperature in the low 20's, but uncharacteristically cloudy days. In the first two weeks, we had only a few completely clear days. For Ambient House, and probably most passive solar houses, winter sun is more important than the outdoor temperature. The house got down to 65, the minimum according to our design goal. In the last few days, nighttime temperatures have gotten below zero. With continued clouds, we got down to 63, colder than we would like. Today is sunny and we are up to 67 so far.

    This early part of winter has been much more cloudy than Typical Meteorological Year (TMY) weather data, which was used to simulate house performance. TMY can be thought of as an average year. There is a fairly new concept called Extreme Meteorological Year (XMY) that models cold winters and hot summers. For conventional buildings, XMY does a good job of representing the maximum heating and cooling loads to be expected over decades of real weather. For passive solar houses, though, it is not so good due to the strong influence of the sun. One could simply simulate the house for decades of weather, but that would take a lot of computer time. It would be valuable to have a new type of extreme year data set (Ambient Meteorological Year?) to help design buildings that depend on ambient sources for heating and cooling.

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    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Posted 12-16-2022 05:16 PM
    I've had the same experience this year, although here in Coastal California, periods of cloudiness are not completely uncommon, it's just that this one was colder than most.  With weak sun, we were only getting up to 64 or 65F at the end of the day and then dropping to 61 in the morning.  A few days we had to run the wood stove for half a day, and for two rainy days we ran it all day, but it's not very big so even with that we were only getting to 65 or so.  It's not nearly as cold here as Colorado, but our glazing ratio isn't very high either due to it being mild (or downright hot) far more often than it's cold.  BTW our night time temps are in the 30s, daytime in the 40s. The killer is that we often have fog till 11am or so, hence with the short days, we're not getting quite enough solar.

    There are things I could have done better (more slab insulation for example), but overall being a little cold seems like not a bad price to pay for  being essentially free from fossil fuels (except when we have to import grid electric)... and of course driving.

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    Bob Scheulen
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-17-2022 09:21 AM
    We have no PV nor active solar yet. The garage roof is sloped for active solar hot water. That is a project for later, as is PV.

    We have a fireplace for backup heat and it has been used five times in Dec. I also installed a post heater after the ERV, but it is not wired yet. Cooling is not much of an issue here, but shades for some of the key windows may get installed if we have a hot summer.

    Comfort is a shifting target. The first few days of cool temperature indoors are noticeable, but you get used to it. A well-insulated, tight house has higher mean radiant temperature and no drafts or cold spots, so lower air temperature feels warmer. If one isn't feeling well, then a fire in the fireplace is therapeutic. We set the thermostat to 63 in our previous rental house in an effort to lower heating bills, which were still up to $400 per month.

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    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-17-2022 08:27 PM
    63! My wife would literally, not being hyperbolic, have icicles growing down her face.!!

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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-18-2022 02:11 PM
    Icicles form below 32F, but yeah, everyone is different. My wife is the one who set the thermostat to 63 in our rental house.

    I don't want anyone to think you have to tolerate uncomfortable temperatures in a passive solar house or Ambient House. Your personal comfort range can be input during the design stage. Part of the reason that our house is colder than the simulations is that I input our previous electrical usage for the new design. We are actually using only half as much. This probably accounts for a couple of degrees difference.

    The other, more important factor is real weather versus typical (TMY) weather. For a conventional house,  heating/cooling equipment is oversized by some factor to deal with those unusual years. If that factor is large enough, during the worst year, it is still comfortable indoors, but you use more energy. For a house with no backup, the "oversizing" is of insulation and thermal mass, and whether the safety factor is chosen large enough directly affects indoor temperature.

    I used TMY3 weather to design our house. I have now simulated every year from 1998 to 2020, and am finding that extreme years are much different from TMY3. More to follow as this research project progresses...

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    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
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    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Posted 12-18-2022 06:51 PM
    Although I personally love living in a passive solar house, my thought is that some degree of sun tempering combined with a heat pump is probably the easier sell for most people.  I'd be ecstatic to see houses even get 50% of their heating passively, versus the standard nearly zero from passive.   I don't know about the rest of the country, but I see a lot of new houses that are the opposite of passive solar---tons of east or west facing glass and the lots of air conditioning to compensate.  Even in gloomy Seattle I was getting maybe 20% of my yearly heat passively and until the heat waves got bad, it never needed A/C (and still doesn't have it).

    My wife and I also hate cold, so that last 10 days or so have been pretty hard, but then I think about some place like Ukraine and I think only going down to 61 is actually a pretty good deal.  We finally got a full day of sun and the house hit 68 today..a couple more days of that and the slab will warm up again...we will get back to our normal range of 66 at sunrise and about 72 at sunset.

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    Bob Scheulen
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-18-2022 05:04 PM
    Well yes...lol.. but the thrust of that statement was one of representational feeling rather than math, or Chemistry.
    Mass is very important allowing for variance smoothing. I generically think of them as "Flywheels", C/R or C/L for electricity, spinning steel or composite for mechanical applications, High specific heat (Ideally) + mass for thermal flywheels, etc..

    And as someone said I think, all these energy upfront infrastructure design concerns add to the interior comfort for the final product. I mention that specifically because of your beginning regarding the discomfort perception. That type of "perspective" was and maybe still is used, as an attempt to label RE as sacrificial, uncomfortable and bare bones, much in the same way EV's were "labeled" as slow and weak, etc.. The FUD and mis-information is never ending of course....

    Interesting study you are doing I think....

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Award Winner
    Posted 12-19-2022 11:20 AM
    Hello all, good to have some feedback on Passive solar. The conversation went from nuclear fusion to simple passive doing the job. We have similar climate to Kieth in Pagosa. Anything lower then 70, my skinny wife demands a fire. During the day, if sun is shining, house gets up to temp and very comfortable no matter how cold it is, the sun brings us right up to temp. When sun sets, the warn air dissipates and air temps drop but radiant temp are stable. It feels colder. Soon the body adjusts to the radiant temps, stabilize and house hangs in at around 70+/-. Our evening heating season is late December till mid March with storm exceptions. Again only if a very cloudy day do we need heat. My wife likes to use the electric heat from our PV and Utility back up credits. Why not. We have been burning our beetle kill pinion wood. We also have an active water heating system made with used collectors, pumps and HE. I got them 25 years ago, used so they are beyond life expectancy.
    Our sunroom, flooded with light, thinks its spring, I counted 10 different types of flowers this morning. Sitting in my PJ’s writing you all. No heat on, outside warmed to 32, sunroom, 68 and comfortable as full of sun and warm air. Its Designed as a major collector, sitting at lowest level, turning the house into a giant convective loop. The stairs are the cold air return.
    As a architect, i have been designing passive homes since 1978, working with many masters, we have developed the NM solar vernacular. Thermal mass being mostly local adobe, low carbon, recyclable, long life expectancy.
    My wife and I have been living in Passive Solar homes we designed and built since 1980, three so far. Its not just a heating system, Its a wonderful way to live.
    Hello to all and Peace on Earth.
    First picture taken inside, second picture just outside the sunroom windows. Mark Chalom


    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-19-2022 12:14 PM
    FYI: No pictures, if there are suppose to be some...

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 17.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Award Winner
    Posted 12-19-2022 12:27 PM

    I think I sent them now, via E mail.. hope it works. Mark

    Hello all, good to have some feedback on Passive solar. The conversation went from nuclear fusion to simple passive doing the job. We have similar climate to Kieth in Pagosa. Anything lower then 70, my skinny wife demands a fire. During the day, if sun is shining, house gets up to temp and very comfortable no matter how cold it is, the sun brings us right up to temp. When sun sets, the warn air dissipates and air temps drop but radiant temp are stable. It feels colder. Soon the body adjusts to the radiant temps, stabilize and house hangs in at around 70+/-. Our evening heating season is late December till mid March with storm exceptions. Again only if a very cloudy day do we need heat. My wife likes to use the electric heat from our PV and Utility back up credits.  Why not. We have been burning our beetle kill pinion wood. We also have an active water heating system made with used collectors, pumps and HE. I got them 25 years ago, used so they are beyond life expectancy.
    Our sunroom, flooded with light, thinks its spring, I counted 10 different types of flowers this morning.  Sitting in my PJ's writing you all. No heat on, outside warmed to 32, sunroom, 68 and comfortable as full of sun and warm air. Its Designed as a major collector, sitting at lowest level, turning the house into a giant convective loop. The stairs are the cold air return.
    As a architect, i have been designing passive homes since 1978, working with many masters, we have developed the  NM solar vernacular.  Thermal mass being mostly local adobe, low carbon, recyclable, long life expectancy.  
    My wife and I have been living in  Passive Solar homes we designed and built since 1980, three so far. Its not just a heating system, Its a wonderful way to live.
    Hello to all and Peace on Earth.
    First picture taken inside, second picture just outside the sunroom windows. Mark Chalom
    image1.jpegimage0.jpeg



    ------------------------------
    Mark Chalom
    Builder/Architect/ Educator
    Solar Design & Analysis
    Santa Fe NM
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-19-2022 01:55 PM
    Mark,
         Beautiful flowers, and a nice buck, too!

    All,
         I certainly agree with the comment about thermal mass. Storage is the hard part of getting to all-renewable electricity. Who knows when or if battery technology will mature enough to provide grid-scale storage. Yet a large part (roughly a quarter of US energy consumption is for heating and cooling) of the storage needs can be provided by thermal mass in our buildings. It is a broadly overlooked solution. It also reduces the needed generating capacity.

        I would also be happy if all buildings were just 50% solar. But I also believe that homes such as ours that push the envelope (pun intended) toward 100% have value, for instance, in identifying the problems/opportunities, like XMY weather data, that get us closer to the goal.

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 19.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-19-2022 04:07 PM
    Very true. Average daily temps are almost worthless when it comes to heat/cool loads. The extremes determine more the real world system needs. Same as range for EV's. Worst case environmental conditions range is what is more useful for car buying planning, etc., etc..

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-21-2022 09:57 AM
    Happy Winter Solstice! Wonderful posting Mark about your Passive Solar home! And thanks Keith for keeping the forum updated on your ambitious Ambient House.  I enjoyed meeting both of you at SOLAR 2022 and look forward to meeting others passionate about Passive Solar at SOLAR 2023. Meanwhile, as the Vice-Chair of the Solar Buildings division, I encourage others to share stories of your Passive Solar projects in this forum, by hosting a project on the National Solar Tour online or virtually later this year, or by sharing your project by submitting an abstract to SOLAR 2023 in Boulder in August -  the deadline is coming up soon! Peace and Light to all. Debbie

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    Debbie Coleman
    (Architect & ASES Solar Buildings V-Chair)
    Sun Plans, Architect
    [EmailAddress]
    https://www.sunplans.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 21.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-21-2022 01:40 PM
    I second Debbie's encouragement to submit a case study to the conference. It would be great to have a whole session on passive solar homes. If we could get enough, I would contribute a small gift for a people's choice award. What do you think?

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    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 22.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Posted 12-21-2022 09:13 PM
    I think passive need to be emphasized.  I sometimes wonder how much energy we could save just by orienting buildings correctly and putting in reasonable windows (ie sun tempering).  Given how most housing developments look like blobs scattered randomly over the landscape, I suspect the saving is quite large. Passive is always the lowest cost solution and never looses it's efficiency--it lasts as long as the building lasts.  When the grid goes out, passive keeps working.  I complain when my house goes down to 60, but a non-passive house with only code required insulation would probably be more like 50--and without external energy most houses in this country would be even colder than that because they're in much colder climates.  Passive solar is the only free thing in the world that people seem to be willing to turn down.  I think part of the issue is that too much emphasis was put on being 100% solar (I'm probably guilty).  Right now buildings are only solar in that the sun shines on all of them--but what they do with it is usually either next to nothing or a negative (those big west facing windows!)  You can always add PV to a building (admittedly not always well), but passive solar has to be from the ground up.  I sure wish LEED etc put more emphasis on it... at least on orientation.  Plus from what I've seen of passivehouse buildings -- they've got a ton of insulation but none of the ones I've seen rely much on passive solar.  I just don't get why so many designers are walking away from free energy.

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    Bob Scheulen
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 23.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    ASES Life Member
    Posted 12-21-2022 09:37 PM
    Bob,
         Amen. You have touched on many of the same frustrations I have. I recently did an informal survey of one university in each state. Only 13 of 50 engineering programs featured solar thermal, and of these only 5 mentioned passive solar. I expect that the developers at LEED, ResCheck, Energy Star, Passive House, etc, have no training in passive solar, and that is the reason they do not include it. Changing this situation is tough when there is such a broad lack of expertise.

    ------------------------------
    M Keith Sharp
    Emeritus Professor
    Louisville KY
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 24.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-22-2022 01:09 AM
    Edited by william fitch 12-22-2022 01:41 AM
    Reading some of the last comments on passive and walking away from free energy triggered the following thoughts. All solar, wind, all RE is free energy, which is why it never gained quick and heavy interest.. Back in the 70's when I started with solar it was the thermal area and Super insulated houses that got my attention. But even back then when the "people" started to get the solar bug (1973 oil embargo) business interest was always lack luster. Why? Because RE suffers the "golden egg" possession that business loves. Recurring cash flow. Front end one shot sure, but no recurring checks each month. Why, because the actual energy is free.

    SDHW in the 80's under the first ITC (1978 Energy act) was a great example of it. The ITC back then was as high as 40% to the first 10K$ for solar (1980). Flat plates and the first evacs (Like the GE evac tubes) were the tech of interest. Free hot water. Free house heating.

    This following quote is from an article by Amy Beaudet in 2015. She was at the AltE store from 2007 till she passed in 2021.:

    "In the 1980s when President Ronald Reagan let the solar tax credits initiated by President Jimmy Carter lapse, and cut the R&D budget for solar by 90%, the newly burgeoning US solar industry crashed, allowing Europe and Asia to dramatically surpass the US product development and solar installations. Within 2 years, over 90% of solar jobs were gone in the US. The US market only rebounded with the 2006 solar ITC. That gave the rest of the world a 25 year head start over the US."
    https://www.altestore.com/blog/2015/08/solar-investment-tax-credit-itc-tick-tock-times-running-out/#.Y6QANHbMJEY

    People might remember the big PR stunt Ronald pulled when he ripped off the Jimmy Carter solar panels from the White house, his back end promise to the FFI in the day. I could resurrect and incinerate him when I think of the things he did pro CW (Anti Democracy), but I will refrain. 

    Back in the early 2000's when NJ was looking to get in on the fledging PV wagon, I went to one of the very early seminars on its PV program. To compress, the primary interest for solar in NJ came from the electric utilities. Their interest was not clean energy or the environment, but to reduce their Summer peak KW fees that they had to pay PJM for what they put out on the grid. And the cost curve was exponential for them! During the Summer (A/C demand) they were paying PJM as much or more than 1$ a KWH!! OUCH!! So they provided the impetuous for the PV credits, using the abundant Summer sun and PV distributed energy to drive down that peak loading, saving them a boatload of money. Go figure/s. But then something awful happened. Demand destruction!! OMG!! Those Genies that got let out of the bottles caught on and did not want to go back in the bottles, no matter how hard all the entrenched interests tried. And oh did they try, and still are trying.

    The reason why there is little industry expertise in all these solar areas like passive, thermal, etc. is because there has never been a big cash cow in free energy. I say that with truth and obvious sarcasm. PV caught on for one reason and one reason only. Utility initial benefit, and it could be easily metered and always used without storage. BTU's not so much. Capitalism lives for profit, not for what is best, right or moral or even in humans long term interest as a species. Chime in Greta anytime. 

    The interest and enthusiasm I see expressed in this thread for passive and thermal is WONDEFRFUL, understated even with that adjective label. But that interest has been there always (The people), exceeding the level Capitalism will allow it to be expressed at, despite its desperate need. All the Government programs that throw money at it, generates interest for Capitalistic opportunities advancing its presence in our energy systems, which of course is why all the entrenched interests resist such offerings. 

    The question is will Mother Nature's growing warnings over take profits strangle hold on humanity.

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    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Posted 12-22-2022 08:19 AM
    Thanks for the perspective.  I was an engineering student in 73--I remember waiting on line for gas.  I remember buying a couple of passive solar books back then (I see we all have that gas crisis in common).  It all seemed to make so much sense back  then -- plus PV back then was crazy expensive.  It was a popular topic--yes, until Reagan, when the price of gas seemed to stop being an issue.  Other than a few us, it seems the idea never caught on--I think because full passive solar is a big leap from standard design and that the building industry, which is notoriously resistant to change, had no experience in it.  Still doesn't.  Plus I don't know how to get developers, who probably build over 90% of the housing in the US to take orientation into account--usually all they are interested in is getting the max number of units on the land they have... and unfortunately home buyers only ask about number of bedrooms, bathrooms, SF, schools etc... the average person has no idea about insulation, air tightness, orientation etc.

    Seems like a good start is to get it as a standard topic in architecture school, and make it a standard part of any code required energy calcs one has to do for a building permit.  That at least creates awareness among professionals. But also, developers need incentives and/or code requirements to orient correctly.  I always thought it would be a good thing to have some kind of energy sticker on houses for sale, like the kind you get on appliances, although that only works if the standard is set high--that way people see that what they're getting is far below what's possible. But also there is messaging--- the reason I like the word "free" is that unlike renewable energy, the upfront cost is also zero (or nearly so)--that is if you think about it as just a design issue--orientation, overhangs and window placement.  To my way of looking at it, the extra insulation is something you want anyhow and when done during initial construction is not expensive--although there is a learning curve, so builder education is also key.  But to do any of this probably means wading thru politics, where some sizable percentage of the population doesn't seem to think there is any problem. The other approach is to understand that in the US, the way to sell things is to make them cool--but I have no idea how.  What's currently cool in housing seems to be about as far from an energy efficient building as possible, although I only see what's on the west coast and even then only a small slice of it.  I see houses with acres of granite counter tops, fancy front doors etc, but then cheap vinyl windows and only code level insulation and no air sealing unless the state energy code requires it.

    But then maybe resiliency-- that is the ability to get thru grid outages--is the selling point.  That seems to be the tact Alex Wilson is taking, but I don't know how much traction he's getting.  I wish I had better answers...all I know is that change seems to only come from marketing and even then it seems to be more of an issue of finding who is open to change, and then they become ambassadors to their community--ie most people only follow other's lead.

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    Bob Scheulen
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    Original Message


  • 26.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Silver
    Contributor
    Posted 12-22-2022 09:49 AM
    Edited by william fitch 12-22-2022 10:07 AM
    Ya... de-javooo....
    People have the interest as I noted, however, there's interest and there's action. I have been in Solar Soooooooo long. A vast majority love to talk about RE. I mean who wouldn't. Its a feel good topic. But most of them are what I call fence sitters. They will talk about it forever, and forever that's all they will do. One's that really act, research a bit, ask some questions, then buy. They are Nike's slogan. 

    Houses serve as the physical implementation of a class society. The entities are segregated through interstates, railroads, rivers or big streams, brown land, etc.. In short, they are expensive clothes designed to show status and wealth, so the "parts" that count are the parts that are visible. 6000 lb. mix on the footer with re-bar, or Granite countertops and pretty paint... Hummm. Let me think.... Superficiality rules. Same with cars. There is a reason that the very old phrase, "Keeping up with the Jones's" is still true today, and as long as we live in a currency constructed world, that's all it can ever be.... Regulation as a historical reference has been the only working weapon of use, to help humans in spite of themselves and their wealth systems. But since CW owns the Gov now, that is pretty dilute and often misdirected.

    A few of my early TFTD's (Thought For The Day) go like this:
    #067.     "For a solution to be found for a problem, the system has to allow the solutions creation and implementation, otherwise the exercise is futile."
    #084.     "Seeing in ultra clarity and knowing in excruciatingly verbose detail of the problem, does not imply an imperative solution must come to pass."
    #037.     "Mankind will not go, " the way of the dinosaur", for lack of "the saving" technologies, but for the inability to make money on it, i.e., Capitalism does not bring the best goods and services to market but the ones that make the most money."

    and one more newer one:
    #293.    "A system’s boundaries cannot be changed by staying within."

    Happy Holidays....






    ​​​

    ------------------------------
    william fitch
    Owner
    www.WeAreSolar.com
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 27.  RE: Rhythms of Passive Solar Living

    Chapter Leader
    Posted 12-22-2022 02:04 PM
    M. Sharp -
         I have been involved with 'siting' passive solar homes as well as incorporating 'solar PV systems' on the same homes, for 40 years in the 'cold north' (Maine) ! Our solar educational seminars here as well as 'overseas', allows folks of all genders and ages to form a simple understanding of just how solar thermal and PV function for a 'truly passive' solar home ! Of course 'siting' for solar access is foremost, I would not belittle 'active' PV systems ncorporated into a 'truly passive solar' home or other building ! 
         I studied with the master (Dr Richard Komp, author of 'Practical Photovoltaics', aatec publishing, Ann Arbor, MI), and did help with his efforts to spread the D-I-Y solar focus with folks visiting Jonesport, Maine (Maine Solar Energy Assoc.), as well as traveling to other continents when asked to help in that way ! ( 6 week course - May & June 2016- in Conakry, Guinea, W Africa, and folks now have their solar 'install' business going well, they were taught the passive solar basics, but their focus has been 'making' a profit) !
         I do want to repeat that 'passive' solar design does not mean leaving out simple active systems for a 'complete' off-grid lifestyle, including solar thermal and electric systems ! 'Off-Grid' can allow families and businesses an option to call their homes and buildings 'Passive Solar' when the siting is determined to allow the greatest 'solar gain' ! We do continue here on the Maine coast !

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    John Burke
    Director, MESEA, Maine
    Maine Solar Energy Association; Downeast Alternative Design Solar, Inc
    Jonesport ME
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